Dr. Hilary Cass - report re trans.

When I was a teenager, Twiggy was the one that girls aspired to be like.

But, as 99.5% of the female population just didn’t have her “build”, we all had to change our wishes and expectations!

I’ve always thought we should aim to be the best we can - but be realistic. Some things will never be possible.

People can identify as to whatever they like, but it doesn’t make it a fact.

And children need to understand that. No one gets everything they want in life - most of life is a compromise.

One major concern high lighted by Cass is the huge increase in girls wanting to be boys. Cass links this to pornography. This is something the gender critical posters on gnet have often suggested

Yes, didn’t the numbers rise from something like 15 to thousands? It’s incredibly difficult to work out causes for social phenomena like this, as there are so many variables, but I’d like to think that sociologists will be all over it too. It needs a multi-disciplinary approach.

I used to work for a famous actress. She told me she absolutely hated puberty and even became anorexic for a while in an effort to evade it. She said that if she'd been given the chance then to "change sex" she definitely would have taken it. However just a few years later she had grown to love being female and knew that would have been a terrible mistake.

When I was working with autistic adults I met a lot of women who had been called tomboys in their youth. It was very common. On discussing it with them there was something about not wanting change. A major dislike for people with autism and something that inevitably happens to bodies in adolescence. Some reacted by trying to 'starve' their bodies out of change resulting in anorexia. Perhaps trying to take some sort of control over change. I don't know. I didn't meet any who wanted to change gender. I did meet males who wanted to be female (in a remarkably masculine sort of way).
Not a straightforward area and I'm glad that Dr Cass has highlighted autism etc.

eddiecat, there are so many similar stories. The attacks on Dr Cass have started. Let’s hope the majority views on ensuring the transactivists ideology don’t continue to dominate

Aveline

When I was working with autistic adults I met a lot of women who had been called tomboys in their youth. It was very common. On discussing it with them there was something about not wanting change. A major dislike for people with autism and something that inevitably happens to bodies in adolescence. Some reacted by trying to 'starve' their bodies out of change resulting in anorexia. Perhaps trying to take some sort of control over change. I don't know. I didn't meet any who wanted to change gender. I did meet males who wanted to be female (in a remarkably masculine sort of way).
Not a straightforward area and I'm glad that Dr Cass has highlighted autism etc.

That's interesting Aveline.

You are absolutely correct - it is most definitely not a straightforward area

And that is the crux of the whole matter. That, and the assumption that a child with limited life experience, determining themselves and their relationship with society via their feelings, can make major decisions which might affect the whole course of their lives in ways they cannot possibly comprehend.

Aveline, that has been my experience too

M0nica

Doodledog I would add that we cannot always have something just because we want it. My DGD a very good and talented ballet dance has had to accept that no matter how good her dancing her physique is entirely unsuitable for being a ballet dancer. At leat she has accepted it and not turned to starving herself in the irrational belief that that if she lost weight suddenly her broad shoulders, and wide back would shrink also.

All of us have to learn to know our limitations

M0nica please tell your GD not to give up. There is a movement now to be more inclusive and to abandon the skinny ballerina model, which is a comparatively recent idea.
www.dancemagazine.com/ballet-body/
Modern dance has become more inclusive already. Ballet is starting to be.

Iam64

eddiecat, there are so many similar stories. The attacks on Dr Cass have started. Let’s hope the majority views on ensuring the transactivists ideology don’t continue to dominate

Cass appears to be recommending a holistic approach which, unfortunately, will be seen by some as a form of 'conversion practice'.

In any other clinical setting working with young people - or any group - would this not be the better method... to be all-inclusive and make judgments based on comprehensive evaluation?

I haven't look at this particular aspect of the news - the attacks on Cass, but I'm pretty sure what the accusations will be.

... Oh, I just looked - and found exactly what I expected...

growinguptransgender.com/2022/04/06/the-failure-of-the-cass-review/

Dickens

Iam64

eddiecat, there are so many similar stories. The attacks on Dr Cass have started. Let’s hope the majority views on ensuring the transactivists ideology don’t continue to dominate

Cass appears to be recommending a holistic approach which, unfortunately, will be seen by some as a form of 'conversion practice'.

In any other clinical setting working with young people - or any group - would this not be the better method... to be all-inclusive and make judgments based on comprehensive evaluation?

I haven't look at this particular aspect of the news - the attacks on Cass, but I'm pretty sure what the accusations will be.

... Oh, I just looked - and found exactly what I expected...

growinguptransgender.com/2022/04/06/the-failure-of-the-cass-review/

I've just read that. It seems a pretty balanced criticism from a non-binary person with a transgender child who did a PhD researching the opinions of the parents of transgender children.
I think asking why your research wasn't included in the study is a valid question.

... do you believe Cass is recommending conversion therapy?

I don't think it is and the accusation IMO is an attempt to discredit it.

Smileless2012

I don't think it is and the accusation IMO is an attempt to discredit it.

I agree. From what I've read, it takes some stretch of the imagination to interpret it as such.

U don’t agree with your analysis Glorianny, no surprise there . Dr Cass conducted a comprehensive assessment. I accept her conclusions

Dickens

... do you believe Cass is recommending conversion therapy?

Probably not. But I think it is extremely foolish to not include any reference to studies which perhaps present a different point of view. Even if the study was flawed actually mentioning it would show a more balanced approach. I notice as well that. no trans people were included on the team making the report.
"Fairness must not only be done, it must be seen to be done."

Kiera Bell (who underwent transition). supports its conclusions.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13291485/journalist-investigating-tavistock-clinic-hails-cass-report-nhs-transgender.html

The NHS has been ordered to reveal the fate of 9,000 transgender young people treated by the Tavistock Clinic; adult gender clinics had refused to disclose whether transgender people late r changed their mind about transitioning. Dr. Hilary Cass said it was unacceptable that there was a lack of 'robust data' on what happened to the children treated by the Tavistock Clinic between 2009 to 2020.
York University is due to look at long term outcomes of the clinics'work but apparently the clinics would not engage in research to inform future treatment. (DT April 11.)

I’d read a while ago about the absence of robust data. It’s staggering as medics have always worked based on research evidence. Clinical psychologists even social workers are supposed to follow research based evidence practice.
It gets worse as more information comes into the public domain

I will be honest and say this has shaken my faith in almost everything. The health system, all political parties, organisations, to watch this happening to all aspects of society has been unbelievable.

Galaxy - agree with you. It’s made worse because in my discussion with a friend who worked at the Tavi three years ago, they highlighted exactly what Cass would conclude. So as with the awful post office scandal, this was widely known

Iam64

I’d read a while ago about the absence of robust data. It’s staggering as medics have always worked based on research evidence. Clinical psychologists even social workers are supposed to follow research based evidence practice.
It gets worse as more information comes into the public domain

Me too Iam I’ve found this report very unsettling - to the point of scariness - as practice seem to have been fired up by dogma not evidence. Quite shocking.

“Sack those who conspired against children.
We will only close this dark chapter in our history if we punish trans extremists for the harm they have caused.”
JULIE BINDEL

So now where will the thousands who have been on the waitlist now go . Their should be clinics that are proposed that are not yet built and when they are there are not enough professionals to work there . Being told to go to Cahms or mental health services is a joke as they are not able to cope with those already on their waitlists . Recipe for disaster .

eazybee

The NHS has been ordered to reveal the fate of 9,000 transgender young people treated by the Tavistock Clinic; adult gender clinics had refused to disclose whether transgender people late r changed their mind about transitioning. Dr. Hilary Cass said it was unacceptable that there was a lack of 'robust data' on what happened to the children treated by the Tavistock Clinic between 2009 to 2020.
York University is due to look at long term outcomes of the clinics'work but apparently the clinics would not engage in research to inform future treatment. (DT April 11.)

Surely once someone became an adult their medical records could not be disclosed without their consent, so the clinics could not engage in research, rather than would not.
Would anyone be happy if their medical records were disclosed without their consent?