Does Israel want full scale war in the Middle East?

The Jewish people didn’t fight back in the 1930s and 6,000,000 were murdered. They will never let that happen again and whilst Hamas goes round saying ‘from the rivers to the sea’ and wanting to totally annihilate the Israelies they can and must fight back. A different world now.

Katie59

“All the aid agencies are saying the continuing attacks on Rafah will precipitate a humanitarian crisis of unimaginable proportions.”

Nonsense, we have already seen the unimaginable humanitarian slaughter - the holocaust in WW2.

These predictions mean nothing, Hamas has made it clear that they want to kill all Israelis, I suppose that is OK for the “aid agencies”

There is no peace deal possible that leaves Hamas in charge of Gaza security, Israel has got be secure or there will be another war in a few years time

What exactly do you mean by security? Hamas doesn't have anywhere near the same resources as Israel potentially does. Of course Israel needs to secure its borders and only a fool would allow Hamas to be responsible for doing that. Last year's attacks show that the IDF has some serious questions to answer about how secure the borders really are, especially with regards to the command structures.

It's unrealistic to think that Palestinians will just forget about this. They will hate Israel even more and attempts at reprisals must be expected. However, Hamas' resources will have been seriously weakened. Many of their fighters will have been killed, their infrastructure has been destroyed. They probably have some rockets and arms left, but not that many. If the rocket attacks can be stopped, Gaza and the West Bank should be left to self-govern, which includes their own internal security (without Israeli interference). Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza dislike each other anyway, but that's for them to sort out. Israel should stop trying to play them off against each other.

My hope is that Netanyahu will be replaced by somebody more pragmatic and moderate. Israel is never going to be secure while it has a sworn enemy on its doorstep. Netanyahu's strategy seems to have been to destroy that enemy. Another approach is diplomatic. It would be good if Israeli, West Bank and Gaza leaders could have regular meetings to discuss the way forward. West Bank settlement would obviously need to be an issue, as would the freedom for Gazans to control their own coastline ... and much more. They don't need to "like" each other. Saudi, Egypt, Qatar (and some other countries) need to be involved. It would be in everybody's interest, if there were agreements on all sides. The Middle East needs to sort something out without US or European involvement.

It's sometimes overlooked that there were Palestinians working in Israel and Palestinian companies doing contract work for Israel. Palestinians aren't actually medieval, donkey-riding peasants, which one poster on here seems to think they are. A way forward which doesn't involve war could be found, but it needs goodwill on both sides. At the moment, Gazans have very little hope for the future, so have turned to Hamas. Ensure their material welfare improves and gradually they will see less reason for radical solutions. I doubt very much whether Israelis and Palestinians will be "best buddies" in our lifetime, but there could be a situation where there is some kind of mutual respect.

Israel: Here are the terms of our proposed ceasefire.
Hamas: No. We will fire rockets at your soldiers at a humanitarian aid entry.
Israel: Okay, we're going into Rafah.
Hamas: We accept a ceasefire we negotiated with ourselves.
Media: Hamas accepts ceasefire! They want peace!

Yes. The media are pro Palestine. Anti Semitism is alive and well.

x“It's sometimes overlooked that there were Palestinians working in Israel and Palestinian companies doing contract work for Israel. Palestinians aren't actually medieval, donkey-riding peasants, which one poster on here seems to think they are. A way forward which doesn't involve war could be found, but it needs goodwill on both sides. At the moment, Gazans have very little hope for the future, so have turned to Hamas. Ensure their material welfare improves and gradually they will see less reason for radical solutions. I doubt very much whether Israelis and Palestinians will be "best buddies" in our lifetime, but there could be a situation where there is some kind of mutual respect.“x

I completely agree. Jewish people have been persecuted throughout history, but it’s certainly not the fault of the Palestinians and surely both they and the Israelis deserve to live in peace.

I agree cossy. To find a solution where both can live in peace.

To object to the current regime in Isreal is not to be anti-semitic: to wish for peace and prosperity in Gaza, similarly.

I was brought up post WW2 by parents who were active in helping Jewish settlers in the UK and understand the horrors of the concentration camps and very supportive of a "Safe haven".

But in 1967 when the then Israeli regime annexed Gaza and the West Bank I realised it was far more complex than a division between "pro and anti" two sides with anti-semitism automatically attached to concern for Gaza and the West Bank.

It may be for some but hatred just breeds more hatred.

‘Hatred just breeds more hatred’ so true Wyllow3 hence the rise in antisemitism

Urmstongran

Israel: Here are the terms of our proposed ceasefire.
Hamas: No. We will fire rockets at your soldiers at a humanitarian aid entry.
Israel: Okay, we're going into Rafah.
Hamas: We accept a ceasefire we negotiated with ourselves.
Media: Hamas accepts ceasefire! They want peace!

I don't think Hamas wants peace. But I'd lay a bet that a huge percentage of Palestinians do.

The only way to absolutely destroy and obliterate Hamas is for them to become completely redundant. You can kill them to the last man, but the seeds are sown for their successors.

As Cossy says, I doubt very much whether Israelis and Palestinians will be "best buddies" in our lifetime, but there could be a situation where there is some kind of mutual respect.

... or, if not respect for the demographic - at least respect for an agreement that will allow each to live in peace.

I don't know how they managed it, but in my very last job (the pharmaceutical industry), I liaised with a small company run jointly by a Muslim and a Jew. On the face of it (I did meet them, once) both appeared to adhere to their respective religion. All things are possible.

Anniebach

‘Hatred just breeds more hatred’ so true Wyllow3 hence the rise in antisemitism

Yes Annie and I deplore it. It's always been there underground. For centuries.

Millions of Palestinians are suffering. They need our compassion too - and realistic plans ahead.

As Dickens says, "I don't think Hamas wants peace. But I'd lay a bet that a huge percentage of Palestinians do."

It does feel very intractable. Thats why I welcome cease fire talks whatever their origin.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Are you a language teacher graceholan?

Dickens I wrote the words you quoted.

I agree with your post.

Of course all things are possible. The best man at my daughter's marriage to a man from a Muslim family is Jewish.

Granniesunite

I’ll never understand the lack of compassion and understanding of the plight of ordinary folks caught up in this particular war. And there are millions of them.

Human beings on both sides of this power struggle are suffering and I pray for all who are suffering because of war.

Quite right I just can’t understand why Hamas is willing to kill tens of thousands of the people it claims to represent to achieve their aim of destroying Israel

Hamas wants to kill all Jews

growstuff

Dickens I wrote the words you quoted.

I agree with your post.

Of course all things are possible. The best man at my daughter's marriage to a man from a Muslim family is Jewish.

Dickens I wrote the words you quoted.

Apologies growstuff - I didn't pay sufficient attention to what I was reading. And I agree with every word of what you've written.

Of course all things are possible. The best man at my daughter's marriage to a man from a Muslim family is Jewish.

If one cares to scour the 'net, there's all kinds of scenarios like yours and mine to be found.

Not least Daniel Barenboim's West-Eastern Divan Orchestra which brings Israelis and Palestinians together in their shared love of classical music.

Urmstongran

Israel: Here are the terms of our proposed ceasefire.
Hamas: No. We will fire rockets at your soldiers at a humanitarian aid entry.
Israel: Okay, we're going into Rafah.
Hamas: We accept a ceasefire we negotiated with ourselves.
Media: Hamas accepts ceasefire! They want peace!

Add to that
Hamas:we will release 33 hostages over a six week phase and some will be alive and some will be dead bodies of hostages.

nanna8

Yes. The media are pro Palestine. Anti Semitism is alive and well.

Very much so

Oreo

nanna8

Yes. The media are pro Palestine. Anti Semitism is alive and well.

Very much so

Are the Jews who have marched in support of the people of Gaza antisemitic then?
Are the Israelis protesting and telling Netanyahu to accept a ceasefire antisemitic?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-NKhRVV2gU

I have just had first hand experience of an item appearing in the mainstream media which is factually incorrect and plain wrong. I cannot give details but it did reinforce my belief that the media is much to blame for many of the problems in this world.
Just thought to share….. although how anyone gets to the truth is beyond me.

Glorianny

Oreo

nanna8

Yes. The media are pro Palestine. Anti Semitism is alive and well.

Very much so

Are the Jews who have marched in support of the people of Gaza antisemitic then?
Are the Israelis protesting and telling Netanyahu to accept a ceasefire antisemitic?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-NKhRVV2gU

It’s a very tiny amount of Jews doing any marching and I suspect those who are very left wing.
The ones in Israel who are telling BN to accept a ceasefire are those who want the hostages back over all else, understandable of course but they won’t be happy if hamas just send back half of the hostages alive and the others dead.

Oreo

Glorianny

Oreo

nanna8

Yes. The media are pro Palestine. Anti Semitism is alive and well.

Very much so

Are the Jews who have marched in support of the people of Gaza antisemitic then?
Are the Israelis protesting and telling Netanyahu to accept a ceasefire antisemitic?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-NKhRVV2gU

It’s a very tiny amount of Jews doing any marching and I suspect those who are very left wing.
The ones in Israel who are telling BN to accept a ceasefire are those who want the hostages back over all else, understandable of course but they won’t be happy if hamas just send back half of the hostages alive and the others dead.

In the chaos that is Gaza how do you imagine anyone could have been guaranteed to survive? Do you imagine the Israeli bombs somehow carry a hidden instruction not to kill any hostage? Some of them will undoubtedly be dead. If their bodies will be somewhere accessible is another question.

We will release 33 hostages over a six week period and some will be alive and some will be dead

If that was the terms of the ‘peace’ plan from Hamas, I can’t say I’m surprised that it was rejected.
It’s simply not good enough!

My Facebook page is full of posts from my Jewish friend every day and they are all about the release of the hostages. That is what Jewish people want. They are adamant that the release of the hostages is first, second and last. Nothing else will do!

Give it a rest Gloriannie - no one says every Palestine marcher is anti semitic. That stands whether they’re Jewish, Muslim of any faith or none
Sadly some are, as their chants and banners show

Katie59

Granniesunite

I’ll never understand the lack of compassion and understanding of the plight of ordinary folks caught up in this particular war. And there are millions of them.

Human beings on both sides of this power struggle are suffering and I pray for all who are suffering because of war.

Quite right I just can’t understand why Hamas is willing to kill tens of thousands of the people it claims to represent to achieve their aim of destroying Israel

I've never been able to understand what Hamas hoped to achieve with the attack last year, but we are where we are. There's no doubt that millions of people, many of whom were too young or not born last time Gaza held an election, are suffering.

Dickens

growstuff

Dickens I wrote the words you quoted.

I agree with your post.

Of course all things are possible. The best man at my daughter's marriage to a man from a Muslim family is Jewish.

Dickens I wrote the words you quoted.

Apologies growstuff - I didn't pay sufficient attention to what I was reading. And I agree with every word of what you've written.

Of course all things are possible. The best man at my daughter's marriage to a man from a Muslim family is Jewish.

If one cares to scour the 'net, there's all kinds of scenarios like yours and mine to be found.

Not least Daniel Barenboim's West-Eastern Divan Orchestra which brings Israelis and Palestinians together in their shared love of classical music.

Exactly! I really hate the stereotyping of all Muslims hating Jews (and vice versa).