Does Israel want full scale war in the Middle East?

Oreo

Urmstongran

Israel: Here are the terms of our proposed ceasefire.
Hamas: No. We will fire rockets at your soldiers at a humanitarian aid entry.
Israel: Okay, we're going into Rafah.
Hamas: We accept a ceasefire we negotiated with ourselves.
Media: Hamas accepts ceasefire! They want peace!

Add to that
Hamas:we will release 33 hostages over a six week phase and some will be alive and some will be dead bodies of hostages.

Quite honestly, I'm amazed that any of them are still alive. I hate to think about their psychological state.

Iam64

Give it a rest Gloriannie - no one says every Palestine marcher is anti semitic. That stands whether they’re Jewish, Muslim of any faith or none
Sadly some are, as their chants and banners show

Sorry the post says -*The media are pro-Palestine. Anti-semitism is alive and well*.
What else am I to take from that except those pro Palestine are antisemitic?

growstuff
Dickens I wrote the words you quoted.

I agree with your post.

Of course all things are possible. The best man at my daughter's marriage to a man from a Muslim family is Jewish.

Your daughter is not having a church wedding?

Oreo

Glorianny

Oreo

nanna8

Yes. The media are pro Palestine. Anti Semitism is alive and well.

Very much so

Are the Jews who have marched in support of the people of Gaza antisemitic then?
Are the Israelis protesting and telling Netanyahu to accept a ceasefire antisemitic?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-NKhRVV2gU

It’s a very tiny amount of Jews doing any marching and I suspect those who are very left wing.
The ones in Israel who are telling BN to accept a ceasefire are those who want the hostages back over all else, understandable of course but they won’t be happy if hamas just send back half of the hostages alive and the others dead.

I don't really understand your point. Aren't Jews allowed to be left-wing? What does left-wing mean anyway in this context?

It's nonsense really. They are people who care that other people are suffering and I guess they want to make the point "not in my name". Many strictly Orthodox Jews are against the war, which is ironic because they are the ones whose Jewish faith is probably the strongest.

The only useful weapon Hamas has is propaganda, supplied generously by Al Jazzera and parroted out by all the other news outlets, eagerly lapped up by readers who want to believe it. Left wing idealists believe that leaving Hamas in charge of security in Gaza is a long term solution, it won’t they are terrorists only interested in killing Jews

Anniebach

growstuff
Dickens I wrote the words you quoted.

I agree with your post.

Of course all things are possible. The best man at my daughter's marriage to a man from a Muslim family is Jewish.

Your daughter is not having a church wedding?

Why should she? She doesn't have a faith. It doesn't mean that either of them didn't take their vows extremely seriously.

Thank you growstuff , I didn’t think it was a church service

Katie59

The only useful weapon Hamas has is propaganda, supplied generously by Al Jazzera and parroted out by all the other news outlets, eagerly lapped up by readers who want to believe it. Left wing idealists believe that leaving Hamas in charge of security in Gaza is a long term solution, it won’t they are terrorists only interested in killing Jews

How can being responsible for internal security within Gaza result in killing Jews? I've already written that Israel needs to provide its own border security. What does "security" within a small area entail? Or do you think that once there's some kind of peace, Israel should have the right to march in and do what it wants?

No one wants Hamas left in charge of Gaza. It would be good if there could be a proper international response, which would give the Palestinian people an open and democratic country to live in, after the prison they have been held in for so long. I doubt it will happen. These poor people, some of them fourth generation refugees, will probably be left with a tiny area, effectively a concentration camp, while right wing Israeli settlers take over more land, and gain access to the sea and the oil.

Anniebach

Thank you growstuff , I didn’t think it was a church service

Why is it relevant? The point is that my daughter's husband is from a Muslim family. Both his parents believe in Islam and, for example, observe Ramadan. They also follow Muslim dietary rules. My daughter's husband isn't a believer, although he still follows some Muslim/Arab traditions. Their best friend happens to be Jewish. The different backgrounds don't seem to bother any of them in the slightest, which is how it can be.

Glorianny

No one wants Hamas left in charge of Gaza. It would be good if there could be a proper international response, which would give the Palestinian people an open and democratic country to live in, after the prison they have been held in for so long. I doubt it will happen. These poor people, some of them fourth generation refugees, will probably be left with a tiny area, effectively a concentration camp, while right wing Israeli settlers take over more land, and gain access to the sea and the oil.

I wonder who would constitute the "international" response. Personally, I think other countries shouldn't interfere. Enough harm was done with the partition of Palestine in the first place and the acceptance of Israel's declaration of a state. Palestinians blame Europeans for persecuting Jews and causing the need for a Jewish homeland. The US is seen as essentially a supporter of Israel and using its money to throw its weight around. I would hate the door to be opened to Chinese or Russian influence. I seriously think this is a matter for Israel, the West Bank, Gaza and neighboring countries to sort out. Saudi, Egypt and Jordan don't want to antagonise Israel and certainly don't want the war to escalate, so I think they could be capable of being responsible mediators.

Glorianny
I’m convinced that you don’t actually understand what a concentration camp is, or was, as the term appeared to emerge after, or during WW2.
As you probably wouldn’t believe my explanation, you could ask growstuff as she has apparently studied that era and so will be able to tell you.
However, let me assure you that the area known as Gaza was never in any way approaching a concentration camp despite the fact that you have regularly claimed it was/is. I suspect that when this miserable war is over, and it won’t be until the hostages are returned either dead or alive, then the Gazans will be able to rebuild Gaza, and undoubtedly they will be supported in that yet again by Israel.

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
noun
a place in which large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labour or to await mass execution. The term is most strongly associated with the several hundred camps established by the Nazis in Germany and occupied Europe 1933–45, among the most infamous being Dachau, Belsen, and Auschwitz.

The sea and the oil
This.

maddyone

Glorianny
I’m convinced that you don’t actually understand what a concentration camp is, or was, as the term appeared to emerge after, or during WW2.
As you probably wouldn’t believe my explanation, you could ask growstuff as she has apparently studied that era and so will be able to tell you.
However, let me assure you that the area known as Gaza was never in any way approaching a concentration camp despite the fact that you have regularly claimed it was/is. I suspect that when this miserable war is over, and it won’t be until the hostages are returned either dead or alive, then the Gazans will be able to rebuild Gaza, and undoubtedly they will be supported in that yet again by Israel.

Well I know enough to know that the first concentration camps were in fact British and used to imprison Boers in the Boer War. Thousands died in them.
A concentration camp is exactly that, an area where a population is concentrated and held against its will. Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on the planet and free movement of its people has never been allowed.

South Africa has also said so
Another of South Africa's lawyers, John Dugard, added the Gaza Strip is “a concentration camp where genocide is taking place

He was repeating remarks made in 2023 by South African President Cyril Ramaphosa

growstuff

Glorianny

No one wants Hamas left in charge of Gaza. It would be good if there could be a proper international response, which would give the Palestinian people an open and democratic country to live in, after the prison they have been held in for so long. I doubt it will happen. These poor people, some of them fourth generation refugees, will probably be left with a tiny area, effectively a concentration camp, while right wing Israeli settlers take over more land, and gain access to the sea and the oil.

I wonder who would constitute the "international" response. Personally, I think other countries shouldn't interfere. Enough harm was done with the partition of Palestine in the first place and the acceptance of Israel's declaration of a state. Palestinians blame Europeans for persecuting Jews and causing the need for a Jewish homeland. The US is seen as essentially a supporter of Israel and using its money to throw its weight around. I would hate the door to be opened to Chinese or Russian influence. I seriously think this is a matter for Israel, the West Bank, Gaza and neighboring countries to sort out. Saudi, Egypt and Jordan don't want to antagonise Israel and certainly don't want the war to escalate, so I think they could be capable of being responsible mediators.

I was thinking of a situation similar to the solution in Cyprus where borders are patrolled by UN troops.
Of course the problem is if the US are not involved Israel is unlikely to accept any such solution having such bad relationships with most of its neighbours.
I don't think it will happen anyway.
Israel will settle more territory and try to control Gaza. Hamas will have a massive recruitment surge. Israel will have oil and the sea. Gaza will be rebuilt by clandestine means and the whole cycle will start again. Lets not forget Israel flattened Gaza in 2012 when it declared The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for forty years. So round and round it goes.

Glorianny UN Troops are already deployed in Israel they patrol the border between Israel and Lebanon.

Glorianny Israel is doing its best to undermine the UN.

Lets not forget Israel flattened Gaza in 2012 when it declared The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for forty years. So round and round it goes.

So they decided to let Gaza run its own security they elected Hamas who promised to improve their conditions.
This time Israel itself must oversee security as they do in the West Bank, they don’t want to but nobody else is going to do it for them

For comparison all the governments in neighbouring countries has to maintain a large army to control terrorists Israel will be no different.
Except it is the only democracy the others are military dictatorships of some form.

Ah the West Bank! Well only 474 Palestinians have died there since the war began of course 116 of them were children. I'm sure they'll all feel very safe in Gaza under the same rule.

growstuff

Glorianny Israel is doing its best to undermine the UN.

Good.
Israel will do what’s best for itself without the useless and toothless UN.

Glorianny

Ah the West Bank! Well only 474 Palestinians have died there since the war began of course 116 of them were children. I'm sure they'll all feel very safe in Gaza under the same rule.

The safety of Gaza that Hamas is responsible for has cost 30,000+ lives now can you support them.

Gaza is Hamas they were elected to make Gaza secure and a better place

It does make me wonder what Hamas promised that made Gazans vote for them.

They want to kill all Jews ?

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