Should Israel not compete in the European Song Contest?

Sport and arts should always be separate from politics.

Callistemon21

^I do find this repeated and false accusation that all support for Palestine is antisemitic highly offensive. When it isn't actually being stated it is being insinuated.^

That is totally untrue.

I doubt there is anyone who does not feel compassion for the Palestinian people, especially the women and children and wish to see an end to this conflict and a resolution.

However, at the moment, everything seems to be affected by this and by protestors who just want to disrupt everything.

Feeling sorry for them then complaining that protest is disruptive isn't really compatible. How else do you think governments can be influenced to condemn Israel? How else do you think the people of Palestine should be supported.

The post after yours shows how pro Palestine support and anti-semitism is often linked.
No evidence. Just "I've seen" or "I've heard". That's how hate is spread
I googled Hitler in protest
The only example I came up with was a man who was arrested before a march for placards showing Netanyahu morphing into Hitler. They never made the march.
www.gbnews.com/news/palestine-activist-protest-hitler-placards-car-boot-released-police

Lovetopaint037

Sport and arts should always be separate from politics.

Do you disagree then that the banning of participation in sport and the refusal of artists to perform in South Africa helped to end apartheid?

Glorianny if the U.K. pro-Palestine camps are anything like those in the USA I totally understand why Shelmiss is concerned.

As others have posted upthread, not a day goes past where we hear from Jewish students on U.K. uni campuses who have been intimidated by pro-Palestinian supporters.

I do wonder why a fair few of the pro-Palestinian supporters, here and abroad feel the need to cover their faces with a Keffiyeh?

I think it’s disgusting how that poor girl is being treated just for singing I’m voting for her to show we not all against the Jews in our country who have lived here all my life and never been treated this way before.

Made its debut in 1973 (wiki)

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny if the U.K. pro-Palestine camps are anything like those in the USA I totally understand why Shelmiss is concerned.

As others have posted upthread, not a day goes past where we hear from Jewish students on U.K. uni campuses who have been intimidated by pro-Palestinian supporters.

I do wonder why a fair few of the pro-Palestinian supporters, here and abroad feel the need to cover their faces with a Keffiyeh?

How does anyone know a jewish student anyway? Most are not easily identifiable.

I see the Dutch contestant has been chucked out. What a surprise, no evidence at all that he was a narcissistic bully🤦‍♀️

Attacking a defenceless singer is not right.
Is the Israeli singer any more responsible for what is going on, than a Palestinian singer would be responsible for the Hamas attack which started this?
I expect someone will immediately leap in and tell me that Hamas’ actions were not representative of all Palestinians.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny if the U.K. pro-Palestine camps are anything like those in the USA I totally understand why Shelmiss is concerned.

As others have posted upthread, not a day goes past where we hear from Jewish students on U.K. uni campuses who have been intimidated by pro-Palestinian supporters.

I do wonder why a fair few of the pro-Palestinian supporters, here and abroad feel the need to cover their faces with a Keffiyeh?

How does anyone know a jewish student anyway? Most are not easily identifiable.

Well they obviously do on campuses.

Are you suggesting that the Jewish students being interviewed are imagining the antisemitism directed towards them?

Are they just saying they feel intimidated because they can?

I think you are scraping the bottom of the proverbial barrel in order to back up what seems to be your opinion that all pro-Palestinian camps, marches and or supporters are innocent of any acts of antisemitism. This comes across in the majority of your posts on the Gaza - Israel war.

Glorianny

I don't know why tickingbird was deleted I don't agree with any one being deleted.
I do find this repeated and false accusation that all support for Palestine is antisemitic highly offensive. When it isn't actually being stated it is being insinuated.

I'm sorry Shelmiss finds the pro-Palestinian support camps intimidating. I would simply ask why?
The majority of those involved would fully support her and condemn any antisemitism. They are not people who support any form of oppression or discrimination. Which is why they are there. There may even be Jews amongst the demonstrators, because many of them oppose the actions of Israel.

Why do I find the pro Palestinian camps intimidating??

A couple of months ago when it started on campus, before the tents etc there was a gathering in the main square on the campus. There was quite a large crowd, with a woman screaming and shouting with a megaphone “from the river…..etc” with students wrapped in the Palestinian flag.

I stood there shaking while I was watching it.

If I had said “erm hello….I’m Jewish” they would have rounded up on me screaming and shouting and there would have been no polite debate. But I didn’t because I am not stupid. Nor do I look noticeably Jewish.

I’m an older student. I can walk away back to my life where it’s not shoved in my face every day, apart from on TV. I feel so sorry for those students who are younger both Jewish and not Jewish who don’t wish to become involved.

I am also apprehensive about saying I am Jewish to my colleagues as I don’t know how they feel about Palestine and don’t wish to get into a discussion about it. It’s not cowardice, it’s just hiding myself I suppose.

It is hard to put into words but there it is. Britain 2024.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny if the U.K. pro-Palestine camps are anything like those in the USA I totally understand why Shelmiss is concerned.

As others have posted upthread, not a day goes past where we hear from Jewish students on U.K. uni campuses who have been intimidated by pro-Palestinian supporters.

I do wonder why a fair few of the pro-Palestinian supporters, here and abroad feel the need to cover their faces with a Keffiyeh?

Because they are cowards. Intimidation of Jewish people whilst hiding your face. Such bravery. Are some of them illegal, and shouldn't even be in our country. Is that why they are hiding.

"I do wonder why a fair few of the pro-Palestinian supporters, here and abroad feel the need to cover their faces with a Keffiyeh?"

I think they fancy themselves as warriors and do their POV no service whatsoever.

If peace is to come to the region, it's not by means like that. It's across a table, actually talking to others, prepared to make compromises.

In terms of demonstrations, aggressive tactics or symbols just make things worse.

Thank you Ism64 for your agreement.
Another poster has almost accused me of making things up. I did not, I reported what I saw and I’m not blind.

Sad about Holland leaving the contest. Room for Hamas now with some real integration. How about “Boom bang a bang” it does have a track record os success!,

Having said that, Israel’s 1979 winning song would be more appropriate for them

A certain group of people now in this country have intimidation as their modus operandi. We saw it in Rochdale,Oldham, Huddersfield and may other cities where thousands of young girls were systematically abused an raped.
We saw intimidation within local authorities to hush it up in order not to “destabilise community relations”. There will doubtless be intimidation in Sweden during the event, tolerated under modern freedom of speech interpretation. For the moment cast your vote tonight and tell all your friends to do the same. Good luck, Israel!

There may be antisemitic elements in the demonstrations, but most of the people I know taking part are passionate supporters of human rights. Will Jewish students who express support for the Israeli actions be shouted at? well yes but because of their views not their Jewish origins.

It is so sad to see on these threads such support for those Jews who are the target of a few individuals with antisemitic views and little support for the Palestinian people who have been persecuted by the Israeli government for decades.

The ignorance about that abuse is vividly illustrated by the question about face covering.
So why are some protestors' faces covered? Many people of Palestinian origin have relatives remaining in Gaza or living on the West bank. They know that the Israeli secret service will inspect any demonstrations and use facial recognition software to identify them. Their relatives will then become suspected terrorists. They will be liable to house searches, arrest and imprisonment without trial and general harassment by the Israeli authorities. That's real oppression and discrimination and it's state sponsored not just a few bigoted individuals.

Shelmiss

Glorianny

I don't know why tickingbird was deleted I don't agree with any one being deleted.
I do find this repeated and false accusation that all support for Palestine is antisemitic highly offensive. When it isn't actually being stated it is being insinuated.

I'm sorry Shelmiss finds the pro-Palestinian support camps intimidating. I would simply ask why?
The majority of those involved would fully support her and condemn any antisemitism. They are not people who support any form of oppression or discrimination. Which is why they are there. There may even be Jews amongst the demonstrators, because many of them oppose the actions of Israel.

Why do I find the pro Palestinian camps intimidating??

A couple of months ago when it started on campus, before the tents etc there was a gathering in the main square on the campus. There was quite a large crowd, with a woman screaming and shouting with a megaphone “from the river…..etc” with students wrapped in the Palestinian flag.

I stood there shaking while I was watching it.

If I had said “erm hello….I’m Jewish” they would have rounded up on me screaming and shouting and there would have been no polite debate. But I didn’t because I am not stupid. Nor do I look noticeably Jewish.

I’m an older student. I can walk away back to my life where it’s not shoved in my face every day, apart from on TV. I feel so sorry for those students who are younger both Jewish and not Jewish who don’t wish to become involved.

I am also apprehensive about saying I am Jewish to my colleagues as I don’t know how they feel about Palestine and don’t wish to get into a discussion about it. It’s not cowardice, it’s just hiding myself I suppose.

It is hard to put into words but there it is. Britain 2024.

It's becoming reminiscent of the 1930s, the rightwing Mosley and his Blackshirts marching and intimidating Jewish people. .

At least then people from the left stood with others to fight fascism.

It amazes me that some people cannot see the difference between a group of people who have been born and raised in a free country and may have fears about discrimination, but have legal redress about that.
And another group of people who originate from a place where they have constantly been oppressed, subjected to unequal treatment and seen their friends and relatives, subjected to arrest and imprisonment without trial, attacked, injured or even killed. Their very real fears remain even when they have lived in this country for years. The fact that they are disregarded says much

Do you mean the Jewish refugees who came here before the war, fleeing Nazi Germany?

Shelmiss

Glorianny

I don't know why tickingbird was deleted I don't agree with any one being deleted.
I do find this repeated and false accusation that all support for Palestine is antisemitic highly offensive. When it isn't actually being stated it is being insinuated.

I'm sorry Shelmiss finds the pro-Palestinian support camps intimidating. I would simply ask why?
The majority of those involved would fully support her and condemn any antisemitism. They are not people who support any form of oppression or discrimination. Which is why they are there. There may even be Jews amongst the demonstrators, because many of them oppose the actions of Israel.

Why do I find the pro Palestinian camps intimidating??

A couple of months ago when it started on campus, before the tents etc there was a gathering in the main square on the campus. There was quite a large crowd, with a woman screaming and shouting with a megaphone “from the river…..etc” with students wrapped in the Palestinian flag.

I stood there shaking while I was watching it.

If I had said “erm hello….I’m Jewish” they would have rounded up on me screaming and shouting and there would have been no polite debate. But I didn’t because I am not stupid. Nor do I look noticeably Jewish.

I’m an older student. I can walk away back to my life where it’s not shoved in my face every day, apart from on TV. I feel so sorry for those students who are younger both Jewish and not Jewish who don’t wish to become involved.

I am also apprehensive about saying I am Jewish to my colleagues as I don’t know how they feel about Palestine and don’t wish to get into a discussion about it. It’s not cowardice, it’s just hiding myself I suppose.

It is hard to put into words but there it is. Britain 2024.

Was the woman shouting at you,or simply shouting Shelmis? People tend to use loud micro or mega-phones at meetings which increase volume. I went to a demonstration about Ukraine someone shouted about that. It wasn't aimed at anyone.

Most just want freedom for Palestine, is that a bad thing?

I don't think anyone has to be involved. My GS is happily working at Uni living in halls ignoring it all.
As for your colleagues, Universities are supposed to be centres for discussion it isn't their fault you don't want to discuss the situation.

Hello Glorianny {nee Trisher). To use the phrase ignorance to intimidate others into believing their stance is invalid, is condescending and patronising, very close to narcissistic. The thousands of English girls I refer to in previous posts had in theory recourse to the law but in practice little redress. There are many like yourself who seem to believe that disadvantaged English girls, some from impoverished, socially and financially, backgrounds are fair game for oppression and disregard.

Glorianny being supportive of Jews worldwide does not mean being unsympathetic towards the plight of innocent Palestinians.

Suggesting that posters are ignorant is a new low for you.

I really wish that you could find your empathy gene when posters say that they are intimidated rather than finding various ways to dismiss their feelings…

I think the problem is that you do see things as 'either/or', Glorianny.
If anyone says they feel sympathy towards Jewish people who are feeling intimidated in many countries now because of what the Israeli Government is doing, you immediately accuse them of lacking any sympathy towards the people in Gaza.

Life's not as simple as that.
It's not one extreme or the other.