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Labour. Our next Government.

(355 Posts)
Urmstongran Sat 18-May-24 14:24:02

You only had to watch Angela Rayner, Labour’s deputy leader, launching the new six-pledge card thing in Essex on Thursday. She bounced onto the stage with that expression politicians have the morning after a huge victory. Her face was one big soporific smile and she’s clearly been away attending a John Prescott word-mangling masterclass. “We aren’t,” she said, although she actually said “we are”, “promising the world,” which she quickly corrected to “the earth”, before adding: “But we are promising that what we are confident on we can deliver on.” Which I had to listen back to about six times to check I had it word for word.

Rachel Reeves then promised to “never play fast and loose with the public finances”. Let’s see how her VAT on private schools policy works out – indications are that already parents are eyeing up state-school alternatives for this September. Ed Miliband is going to “take back control of our destiny”, Yvette Cooper is “giving young people their future back”, while Sir Keir Starmer walked into that room filled with people in suits, tie-less in white shirt sleeves so you could notice him.

It all seems a bit vague. Maybe that’s deliberate?

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 21-May-24 19:37:03

zakouma66

Germanshepherdsmum

Not at all. I know the reality of creating a new settlement. I spent years on one - and it wouldn’t be what Labour calls a new town. I very much doubt that anyone here has that particular experience. So many will think it’s a good idea without having any idea of what’s involved and how long it takes before a sod is turned,

Its bizarre really, some people seem to know about absolutely everything. The list is endless.

Some of us do know a lot about some things, whether you like it or not.

zakouma66 Tue 21-May-24 19:37:51

Urmstongran

It’s going to be VERY interesting being under a Labour government. They’ll have inherited a right mess. It’s certainly not going to be easy. Bluddy hell where to start?

I’m still unsure the likes of Lammy, Dawn Butler, Jonathan Aitken are clever enough to be on the top table - either looking after us or representing us abroad.

I hope Labour do well. I really do. It’s going to happen anyway. It’s just that I have this niggling feeling ….

But you like Reform? So how does that work please?

Primrose53 Tue 21-May-24 19:38:56

Urmstongran

Labour will be in charge very soon. Do the people of this country want more new towns like Milton Keynes? Or do they want a huge reduction in immigration?

Huge reduction in immigration seems most important judging on what people I know say and what I read.

MayBee70 Tue 21-May-24 19:43:48

After what I’ve witnessed over the last few years I have no idea why anyone could possibly think that a Labour government will be worse. For one thing, most of the decent Conservatives have either left the party, been thrown out or are planning to stand down at the next election. But then I’m just naive and ill informed I suppose sad

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 21-May-24 19:48:39

Primrose53

Urmstongran

Labour will be in charge very soon. Do the people of this country want more new towns like Milton Keynes? Or do they want a huge reduction in immigration?

Huge reduction in immigration seems most important judging on what people I know say and what I read.

I agree. We won’t get that with Starmer the human rights lawyer and appeaser.

Urmstongran Tue 21-May-24 19:50:19

Well the Tories increased immigration. I can only hope Labour address the situation (rather than building extra towns).

Primrose53 Tue 21-May-24 19:51:31

spabbygirl

the sooner the better! I am horrified by the actions of this gov't and whatever sort of gov't Labour do will be better than this lot. Labour started the NHS so I have every confidence they'll fix it and ditto for our other welfare services that I've had to use in my time and want to support for others.
I think Labour are deliberately vague or else the right wing press will trash all their ideas.

The NHS are now expected to do far, far more than when it was set up. Firstly our population has massively increased since then and, as we all know is increasing by thousands every day costing us billions as more and more arrive illegally.

I am sure most of us remember times when we were almost begging consultants to go home after having babies. We couldn’t wait to get home. Now we are begging to go IN to hospital for ops we badly need.

People are living longer, having operations that were unheard of years ago like Gender reassignment, IVF, breast implants and scores of other cosmetic type ops.

Casdon Tue 21-May-24 19:52:30

Germanshepherdsmum

Primrose53

Urmstongran

Labour will be in charge very soon. Do the people of this country want more new towns like Milton Keynes? Or do they want a huge reduction in immigration?

Huge reduction in immigration seems most important judging on what people I know say and what I read.

I agree. We won’t get that with Starmer the human rights lawyer and appeaser.

Take a look at the graph at figure 2 on the Migration Observatory attachment I posted above. Come back and tell us why exactly you think Labour will increase migration, and why the Tories have managed to contain it so well?

Urmstongran Tue 21-May-24 20:01:14

I don’t think the Tories have contained immigration at all. Never mind ‘so well’.

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 21-May-24 20:01:54

I haven’t said that the Conservatives have contained illegal immigration. They have however introduced a deterrent with the Rwanda scheme and that is beginning to bite. Labour’s policy is hopeless, as I heard a Border Force official saying in an interview. I think he has a better hang on the problem than we couch experts.

Casdon Tue 21-May-24 20:04:37

Germanshepherdsmum

I haven’t said that the Conservatives have contained illegal immigration. They have however introduced a deterrent with the Rwanda scheme and that is beginning to bite. Labour’s policy is hopeless, as I heard a Border Force official saying in an interview. I think he has a better hang on the problem than we couch experts.

This isn’t just about illegal immigration, is it?

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 21-May-24 20:08:52

Of course not, but that was the issue which you raised. It is, however, a very important issue to many.

Casdon Tue 21-May-24 20:16:41

Germanshepherdsmum

Of course not, but that was the issue which you raised. It is, however, a very important issue to many.

I didn’t raise illegal immigration, I responded to Urmstongran’s post, which was about immigration generally. My question still stands, posted above - tell us why exactly you think Labour will increase migration, and why the Tories have managed to contain it so well

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 21-May-24 21:06:48

I haven’t claimed that the Conservatives have contained immigration, but the Rwanda plan is obviously beginning to take effect. I have said that a Border Force officer, who surely has more experience than any of us, has said that Labour’s plan will not stop the boats.

Cossy Tue 21-May-24 21:09:26

It’s so much more than just “asylum seekers”, legal migration has also increased. Why will this be any worse under Labour?

Casdon Tue 21-May-24 21:27:01

Cossy

It’s so much more than just “asylum seekers”, legal migration has also increased. Why will this be any worse under Labour?

It’s question avoidance Cossy. Illegal migrants are a very small proportion of total migrants, but oh so much more headline grabbing.

MayBee70 Tue 21-May-24 21:37:42

Germanshepherdsmum

I haven’t claimed that the Conservatives have contained immigration, but the Rwanda plan is obviously beginning to take effect. I have said that a Border Force officer, who surely has more experience than any of us, has said that Labour’s plan will not stop the boats.

Isn’t that because the problem is far far bigger and more complicated than just ‘stopping the boats’?

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 21-May-24 22:21:55

How large would the problem be if the boats were stopped?

MayBee70 Wed 22-May-24 00:57:14

We do actually have a responsibility towards many of the people in those boats.

Casdon Wed 22-May-24 07:02:34

The figures are all in the link I posted Germanshepherdsmum.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 22-May-24 07:44:56

Of course the debate is hypothetical because Labour is not in government.

We have tangible evidence of the Tory level of competence when it comes to dealing with immigration.

Indeed we have tangible evidence of all the failures since 2010.

Iam64 Wed 22-May-24 08:06:37

MayBee70

We do actually have a responsibility towards many of the people in those boats.

Indeed we do, on many different levels.
‘Stopping the boats’ is another of those simplistic three word mantra’s. Like ‘Get Brexit done’, ‘oven ready deal’ its headline grabbing and meaningless.
Many are Ordinary people are trying to get away from wars, to safety. Why demonise them.
Our local asylum seekers are mainly from Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan.

zakouma66 Wed 22-May-24 08:07:56

MayBee70

We do actually have a responsibility towards many of the people in those boats.

People, humans. That seems to be largely forgotten.

Oreo Wed 22-May-24 08:36:43

MayBee70

We do actually have a responsibility towards many of the people in those boats.

No, we don’t.
All this talk of ‘desperate folk fleeing’ blah blah is sentimental rubbish.There will be hardly any percentage of true asylum seekers coming here in small boats as they are almost all economic migrants.All of them could have applied for asylum in France or previous countries they travelled through.
They come here as we’re known to be a softer touch than the authorities in Germany or France or have already been turned down there. End of.

zakouma66 Wed 22-May-24 08:39:26

Oreo

MayBee70

We do actually have a responsibility towards many of the people in those boats.

No, we don’t.
All this talk of ‘desperate folk fleeing’ blah blah is sentimental rubbish.There will be hardly any percentage of true asylum seekers coming here in small boats as they are almost all economic migrants.All of them could have applied for asylum in France or previous countries they travelled through.
They come here as we’re known to be a softer touch than the authorities in Germany or France or have already been turned down there. End of.

Can you enlighten us as to how you know who is on the boats please?

How do you know about everybody and their circumstances?