Labour. Our next Government.

Germanshepherdsmum

Thank you. Few Conservative supporters raise their heads above the parapet here. The Labour supporters are a cross between an echo chamber and a primary school playground gang.

😂😂😂😂😂 Really come on, GSD

I have also said what I think about Labour’s (traditional) desire to punish those who educate their children in independent schools, despite paying the taxes which fund state education

GSM Labour is not intending to ‘punish’ those who choose to educate their children privately. That is a ridiculous assertion. Labour will merely ensure that private schools pay the VAT that other businesses in the UK have to pay. For too long they have benefitted from unfair tax breaks. A Labour government will not eradicate private education. Of course, private schools will pass on the extra costs of having to pay VAT to the customer - after all, they are businesses. There will still be choice for the consumer. Those who can afford it will buy it; those who can’t won’t. No change there!

I think all people are different, I have friends and relatives from different persuasions, one worships Johnson and would vote Tory if her life depended on it and is not in any way wealthy, I have a couple of friends who are very fervent Green supporters, two or three who are on the fence and definitely floating voters and a good few who like myself who at heart a really left leaning liberals, but who will probably vote labour. I do have other friends who may vote Conservative, all of whom are very comfortably financially, but who are a little shaky as they’re not at all comfortable with the last 14 years.

I think that there must be many floating voters now.

Haha different political persuasions, that should read.

The non dom loophole has already been removed in the last budget, but Labour rely on people not knowing that.

Removing charitable status for independent schools panders to those who indulge in the politics of envy.

Germanshepherdsmum

The non dom loophole has already been removed in the last budget, but Labour rely on people not knowing that.

Removing charitable status for independent schools panders to those who indulge in the politics of envy.

Or just maybe removing charitable status is the right thing to do as they are not charities?

They are, in law, charities. Another thing that Labour rely on people not understanding.

Germanshepherdsmum

They are, in law, charities. Another thing that Labour rely on people not understanding.

Well perhaps they should no longer be, in law. I understand that there were very good reasons historically for doing this, but now??

Cossy

Germanshepherdsmum

Thank you. Few Conservative supporters raise their heads above the parapet here. The Labour supporters are a cross between an echo chamber and a primary school playground gang.

😂😂😂😂😂 Really come on, GSD

If Labour supporters are in the echo chamber, I guess that means Tory supporters are in the epistemic bubble.

In reality Cossy is right - there are as many different opinions on Gransnet as there are nationally. I doubt many of us are gullible either, we are generally intelligent, well read women who can make our own minds up based on information from a large variety of sources, and we have made up our minds.

Removing charitable status for independent schools panders to those who indulge in the politics of envy

Absolute rubbish! Private schools are not charities; never have been; never will be. I am not in the slightest bit envious of those who choose to privately educate their children.

To GSM

Doesn’t bear thinking about. Angela Rayner representing us on the world stage? She’s awful, but I’m not sure there’s a single person in any political party that I truly think is any good.

Germanshepherdsmum

They are, in law, charities. Another thing that Labour rely on people not understanding.

Yes, they are charities, as they are registered with The Charity Commission.

Though not all private schools are.

LizzieDrip

^Removing charitable status for independent schools panders to those who indulge in the politics of envy^

Absolute rubbish! Private schools are not charities; never have been; never will be. I am not in the slightest bit envious of those who choose to privately educate their children.

Let's get this right shall we, at the moment about 1250 private schools in England and Wales have charitable status, means they cannot operate for profit, so all goes back into school, and can claim some tax exemptions on donations to the school, and Business rates, . So this massive amount can swell Labours coffers, wow that'll make a big difference, to what. So many ordinary people make sacrifices to send their kids to a private school. As someone else said, the politics of envy, bring everything down to the lowest common demoninator.
Wonder will they charge vat on private medical consultations , and surgery too.
This will not help the state school system, private school supporters already pay taxes, so they are in effect supporting state schools and the NHS and not using them.

I see it as the politics of fairness.

For goodness sake, Eton has charitable status!

Charities are for those most in need.

MayBee70

There shouldn’t be a need for private education if the country gave every child the best education possible.

The best time in education was before Labour got rid of most of the grammar schools!

If you were quite bright and passed the 11+ you could go to grammar school. If not you went to Secondary Modern. Both tailored their curriculum to suit their pupils. Most people who went to grammar schools will say they had the best education and the best teachers bearing in mind some of the very brightest kids came from quite poor families, often lived in council housing with parents on low wages. Grammar school changed their lives for the better and offered them a great education.

Secondary Moderns offered less academic kids more practical lessons and many of today’s businesses are run by ex Sec Mod pupils. plumbers, electricians, mechanics, chefs, nurses, secretaries etc. At the Sec Mod up the road from my grammar school the girls planned and prepared fantastic meals and cold buffets for local bigwigs and parents events and for 15 year old girls the standard was as high or even higher than 2nd or third year college students now. The boys did fabulous metalwork, woodwork and technical drawing.

Labour didn’t like this idea so lumped everybody into comprehensive schools including kids with what we now call Special Needs. This was never going to work and most kids who needed extra help much preferred going to schools with kids like themselves as in mainstream they were left colouring in worksheets or bullied by other kids.

Joseann

Smileless2012

I'm unconvinced too Callistemon I want to use my vote but have no idea who to vote for .

👍

Me too.
I’m leaning towards Reform. Maybe a wasted vote but sends a message.
Better I think than ‘none of the above’.

Labour are going to romp it. And why not? The Tories have been so disappointing.

Wyllow3

I see it as the politics of fairness.

For goodness sake, Eton has charitable status!

Charities are for those most in need.

They do not meet most of our definition of “charity”.

I did choose to send my first child to Independent primary school, for a myriad of reasons.

My other three children (different Dad and 12 years between first and second child) all attended state schools.

The main differences were the class sizes, and the opportunities offered. My son won a partial scholarship and there were a few pupils in our income bracket but the majority of the pupils, judging by their homes, cars and choices of holidays, were clearly earning way way above us.

So I don’t “indulge in the politics of envy.”

We also still have Grammar Schools in my county, which the majority of my family, cousins, uncles, and both my parents attended. My grandfather was deputy head of the boys school and classics master.

Grammar schools only work if the 11+ (& 13+) are set using a level playing field. ie ALL children sitting the exam in their own school at the same time having followed the same curriculum. Sadly this isn’t what happens now!

Btw I attended a secondary modern and can assure those who attended Grammar schools that we too followed an academic programme of teaching and were streamed. We didn’t spend all day cooking and preparing dishes and flower arranging!

We don’t call them “special needs” anymore, it’s “additional needs”

Schools?

That was the 1960's! Schools were adequately resourced, stable teachers, repairs done, new schools built, excellent lunchtime meals...

My mother taught in a new Comprehensive School (after being a Sec Mod teacher) and children with different abilities and needs, and both the very bright and those benefiting from a technical/practical syllabus needs were met -

Because they were adequately resourced.
There are now little or no technical skills available anywhere nor apprenticeships to move forward into.

Labelling children at the age of 11, even then was unfair - different backgrounds and stages of development meant different levels of education attainment at that age, their destiny fixed forever.

There were also after school clubs, sports trips, free educational trips away, free music education with instruments provided, school nurse visits, dental visits....

Germanshepherdsmum

‘Everyone given an equitable start in life’ - that’s never going to happen Cossy so you’re asking the impossible. You don’t seem to be up to speed with what is happening with the economy. It’s not unstable.

It might not currently be unstable, but it’s certainly not stable, all this surmising about when the election will be doesn’t build confidence in any area. I’m not asking the impossible - I’m asking for a fair and equitable start for every child, we’re not a third world country!

Everyone CAN be given an equitable start in life if services like surestart, family services, community services were all reinstated.

twiglet77

Doesn’t bear thinking about. Angela Rayner representing us on the world stage? She’s awful, but I’m not sure there’s a single person in any political party that I truly think is any good.

Awful in which way? Too blunt? Too coarse? Not well educated enough? Not well spoken enough?

She is, by her own admission, a product of an illiterate, uneducated mother, brought up in poverty, leaving school having got pregnant at 16, doing a series of low paid jobs, who better to represent the Britain of today that the last 14 years has helped create?

Cossy

MayBee70

There shouldn’t be a need for private education if the country gave every child the best education possible.

There would still be a “want” rather than a “need” Paying for a child’s education doesn’t equal “better” just “different”. I have direct experience of both.

My only issue with independent schools is their charitable status, they are not charities.

Quite often it does mean better and I too have direct experience of both as does one of my sons. People don’t pay school fees if they don’t feel they are getting value for it.

My DGD plays hocky, cricket and netball as well as getting a first class education. She did go to an excellent primary school.
The best all round education is what every parent wants for their children.

God help us!

James Cleverly today:

“ Now Labour have suddenly come up with one idea. Just one – a Small Boats Operational Command run by a former military chief to direct work across key intelligence and enforcement agencies to protect our borders.

The flaw in Labour making this their one idea is that it’s our idea, and it’s already up and running. Labour are really taking the British people for fools.”

The pessimist in me says "same poo different party"

The optimist says "bring on the change"

Because I am hoping all this cost of living crisis nonsense will come to an end