ICJ seeks arrest warrant for Netanyahu and others for war crimes.

Iam64

I’m not naive enough to believe Hamas or Nesnyahu’s government will compromise without outside pressure.
What do you see as a possible end to the killing annie and Katie590?
I’m not wanting a row - it’s a genuine question, the current situation is so dreadful in Gaza and Israel. I’m distressed and don’t support the pro Palestinian protests. Many others do. How do we find a way out?

Hamas has a stated aim to destroy Israel so they will attack wherever they can, civilians deaths don’t matter to them, they are all martyrs.
The only hope for Gazans is for Hamas to be driven out, then Israel will stop bombing. A ceasefire solves nothing because the fighting will restart
Hamas will keep trying to attack but the Gaza war will be over, every country in the Middle East has its extremists attacking the government, Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, Hezbolah and several others.

Palestinian men have to be given a better option than joining Hamas and Israelis have to control the extreme religious Jews who are rapidly becoming as vile as any religious Muslim extremists.
They need to get rid of Netanyahu and start thinking about how to achieve a long term peace. They won't get rid of Hamas but they need to get rid of the "oxygen" that gives it life. It is all about compromise. Compromise is about recognising that your enemy can become your friend and that the humanity that binds us is more powerful than the differences that divide us. No doubt I will be pilloried as being naive, saintly or some other insult (been called all these things on here) but we must believe there is a solution to this awful mess.

Hope is in short supply.

Katie, would that not mean permanent military occupation of Palestine by Israel?

I'll repost this as it asks "what after" and discussions are due to start on Monday.

"Israel-Gaza briefings: How plans for ‘the day after’ could help end war in Gaza"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-69059863

foxie48, thanks for posting at 20.06 today. I agree with you completely.
compromise is about recognising your enemy can become your friend and that the humanity that binds us is more powerful than the differences that divide us

We need peacemakers. I despair because it seems taking sides gets stronger and demands of the key protagonists to ceasefire and genuinely commit to solution finding diminishes with each horror

Hamas become a friend to Israel

Wyllow3

Hope is in short supply.

Katie, would that not mean permanent military occupation of Palestine by Israel?

I'll repost this as it asks "what after" and discussions are due to start on Monday.

"Israel-Gaza briefings: How plans for ‘the day after’ could help end war in Gaza"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-69059863

Palestine is not a state Israel is the state, the Arab population have to recognise that or there will be continual conflict.
Israel must become a truly secular state.
The current balance of power is massively with Israel if Arab Israelis continue to resist the government have the capability to control it.

Netenyahu does not matter, he is the figurehead of the government that will change and it’s the future policy that will shape the future. Whatever international pressure is applied I don’t believe Israel is going to change to Palestine without a major war, the Israelis will fight and have nuclear weapons.

Just to make my personal opinion clear Hamas doesn’t care how many are killed in their crusade, Israel is far more
dangerous, emotions don’t count if survival of the state is at stake.

Katie590

Iam64

I’m not naive enough to believe Hamas or Nesnyahu’s government will compromise without outside pressure.
What do you see as a possible end to the killing annie and Katie590?
I’m not wanting a row - it’s a genuine question, the current situation is so dreadful in Gaza and Israel. I’m distressed and don’t support the pro Palestinian protests. Many others do. How do we find a way out?

Hamas has a stated aim to destroy Israel so they will attack wherever they can, civilians deaths don’t matter to them, they are all martyrs.
The only hope for Gazans is for Hamas to be driven out, then Israel will stop bombing. A ceasefire solves nothing because the fighting will restart
Hamas will keep trying to attack but the Gaza war will be over, every country in the Middle East has its extremists attacking the government, Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS, Hezbolah and several others.

That’s it exactly.

I can't see a peace without international involvement.

Immediate issues next week are within the Israeli government, pressure for Netanyahu to lay out his plans for Gaza'a future - but considerable disagreement about what it should be.

Some want a military occupation, others international peace keeping forces holding Gaza.

foxie48

Palestinian men have to be given a better option than joining Hamas and Israelis have to control the extreme religious Jews who are rapidly becoming as vile as any religious Muslim extremists.
They need to get rid of Netanyahu and start thinking about how to achieve a long term peace. They won't get rid of Hamas but they need to get rid of the "oxygen" that gives it life. It is all about compromise. Compromise is about recognising that your enemy can become your friend and that the humanity that binds us is more powerful than the differences that divide us. No doubt I will be pilloried as being naive, saintly or some other insult (been called all these things on here) but we must believe there is a solution to this awful mess.

No, the very religious Jews are nowhere like extremist Muslims!
You’re comparing them to hamas and calling those Jews vile.
Hamas would be pleased.Shame on you for your comments.
BN cannot be ‘got rid of’ it would need an election, Israel is a democracy.
Palestinian men don’t have to join hamas, other trades and occupations are available.
You’re just plain wrong and seem to have no clue about the nature of Muslim extremists such as hamas who live to kill all or any Jews and cannot reasoned with by giving them a ‘better life’.

foxie48 you see those who support Hamas as victims, and condemn religious Jews as vile , you criticised former Israeli
PM’s.

52 years ago, Black September , Palastinian terrorists carried out the ‘Munich Massacre’ ,

There are different groups of religious Jews in Israel, as well as secular ones. Being strongly religious may or may not mean support for military solutions. Its very complicated.

Some Jews have on this thread been called vile

It’s ridiculous and far fetched to think that Jews and Hamas will, or could, become friends. Hamas are the ones who are vile, not religious Jews. Hamas have been waging war on the state of Israel, and it’s citizens, for many years. They are vile to other Palestinians if they suspect they don’t support them. Has anyone seen the video clip recently released? Showing the way the young Israeli girls were treated on 07/10. The threats to rape them! No one knows if they are alive or dead now. Or have been raped or not. Their families are in despair. I suspect the not knowing is worse then actually knowing that their loved one is dead. Hamas brought all of this on to the Gazans because of what they did on 07/10. People can criticise Netanyahu all they like, but the vast majority of Israelis want their hostages brought home, and the only way that will happen is by the continuation of the armed assault. The Israelis have warned the Gazans to leave Rafah because that’s where the majority of Hamas terrorists are holed up and that’s where the hostages, or their bodies, are believed to be held. Everyone except Hamas wants peace, but the Israelis don’t want peace at the cost of abandoning the hostages.

The whole problem has been made much worse by religious parties influencing politics in Israel. Stealing Palestinian land has inflamed tensions, this must be reversed and Arab Israelis treated fairly.

Turkey has had similar problems with religious influence in politics and has steadfastly defended its secular society. It’s not perfect they still have to control extremists who want fundamentalist government.

Sorry but extremists exist in all religions and yes it can be controlled but to imagine Netanyahu doesn't have any right wing extreme Jews who actively oppose any Muslim rights is to be blind.
From 2021 Extreme Jews marching through the streets chanting "Death to Arabs" and "I hope your villages burn"
edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2021/06/15/jerusalem-far-right-jewish-march-vpx.cnn
If you google it there is also footage of right wing Jews spitting at Christians in Jerusalem.
It's nonsense to say there is no extremism in Judaism.
But most Jews are not extreme, just as most Muslims are not extreme.

I’m seeing no solutions or hope offered just more disagreement. Islamic extremists pose a threat throughout the world but especially in the Middle East .
The right wing Jewish extremists who have been encroaching onto Palestinian lands, killing those who resist , along with Jewish extremists in governmentare a danger to any peace process. They don’t appear to pose a threat to others in the way Isis, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood do. Egypt is desperate to keep the Muslim extremists out of its country, so involved in attempts to end the carnage in Israel/Gaza

Iam64

I’m seeing no solutions or hope offered just more disagreement. Islamic extremists pose a threat throughout the world but especially in the Middle East .
The right wing Jewish extremists who have been encroaching onto Palestinian lands, killing those who resist , along with Jewish extremists in governmentare a danger to any peace process. They don’t appear to pose a threat to others in the way Isis, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood do. Egypt is desperate to keep the Muslim extremists out of its country, so involved in attempts to end the carnage in Israel/Gaza

Egypts extremists are very much within Egypt, which is why they had to return to military government, they don’t want Palestinians in Egypt stirring up more trouble.

The truth is that no one wants the Palestinians. The Jordanians already have what they consider to be enough Palestinians living in Jordan, and they gave The West Bank to the Palestinians some years ago. The Egyptians also don’t want any Palestinians for their own reasons, and that’s why they have closed the border. It is sad that no one wants them, but I suspect it’s to do with the association with terrorism that the Palestinians have, which goes back decades. Hamas are particularly radical and want an Islamic state. Their cruelty knows no bounds, both towards the Israelis and towards their own Palestinian population.

No one wants the Palestinians because UN resolution after resolution has confirmed their right to return to the land Israel has taken from them. 70% of Palestinians in Gaza are refugees. Israel refuses to accept this and will not refer to them as such. Other countries recognise and want them to return or be compensated. If they take in these people they let Israel off the hook.

In this respect, the committee stressed in the report that Israel was under a binding obligation to permit the return of all the Palestinian refugees displaced as a result of the hostilities of 1948 and 1967. The committee affirmed that this is obligation flowed from the unreserved agreement by Israel to honour its commitments under the Charter of the United Nations and its specific undertaking, when applying for membership of the United Nations, to implement General Assembly resolution l8l (II) of 29 November 1947 by safeguarding the rights of the Palestinian Arabs inside Israel, as well as resolution 194 (III) of 11 December 1948 concerning the right of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes or to choose compensation for their property. The Committee continued to clarify that this undertaking was also clearly reflected in General Assembly resolution 273 (III) on the admission of the state of Israel to the United Nations. The General Assembly endorsed the Committee’s report in resolutions 31/20 of 24 November 1976, and 32/40 of 15 December 1977.

The refusal to admit them is nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with Israel's refusal to recognise Palestinian rights, allow them to return to land they were forcibly removed from or to compensate them for the land. Why should other Arab states clear up the mess Israel has made?
If you want the whole legal position
opiniojuris.org/2024/03/11/a-forgotten-detail-the-right-of-return-was-a-condition-of-the-establishment-of-the-state-of-israel/#:~:text='%20In%201974%2C%20UNGA%20Resolution%203236,'

The UN or ICJ can pass whatever legislation they want but cannot enforce it so it’s all a waste of breath, just hot air. The only hope for peace is for the Palestinians to accept that they share Israel with the Jews.

If they dont accept that there will just be continual bloodshed, so it’s their choice, stop attacking Israel.

fwiw if you don't think there are some "vile Jews" living in Israel, I think you should do a bit of research on Smotrich and Ben-Givr who are propping Netanyahu's government and making outrageous demands for their support. If you don't then think they are vile, you have very different standards to me, the majority of secular Jews in Israel and most posters who contribute to these threads. If you don't think there are terrorist groups within the Ultra Orthodox Jews in Israel, then again you need to do some research.The Ultra Orthodox Batallion in the IDF (Netzah Yehuda) has been sanctioned by the US. Why? Because of it's appalling behaviour to Palestinians and how do we know this? Because they post videos of what they are doing. Sound familiar? If Israel doesn't contain these people there will be even more blood shed, they are dangerous religious zealots. Sound familiar?

Katie590

The UN or ICJ can pass whatever legislation they want but cannot enforce it so it’s all a waste of breath, just hot air. The only hope for peace is for the Palestinians to accept that they share Israel with the Jews.

If they dont accept that there will just be continual bloodshed, so it’s their choice, stop attacking Israel.

So you think its OK for Israel to agree to allow Palestinians to return to their land, or to be compensated for that land, in order to gain admission to the UN, but then to renege on that promise?

Israeli Jews have shown they do not want to "share Israel". Indeed the state of Israel has shown it does not want to share.
The people of Palestine have a right to have their own state and some of that land is land Israel currently occupies.

This shows how ineffective the UN is imo. If this was a condition of Israel's admission to the UN, their membership should have been rescinded for non compliance.

I don’t need to do any research at all to know what Hamas did on 07/10. If it’s so well hidden that I need to do research, then it’s pretty well hidden and not a big deal. I’ve got better things to do than sit all day researching Jewish people in Israel who I’ve never heard of. I know what my Jewish friend thinks, she thinks that the hostages need to be released and I don’t need to do any research to know that. If posters want to spend their days researching in order to find obscure Jews who they can blame, well it’s a free country (unlike Gaza where you support Hamas or you’re dead) but I’m not wasting my time desperately trying to find something I can whack the Jews with.

I also think the hostages should be released, actually they should not have been taken in the first place. At no time have I said anything in support of Hamas or expressed anything anti semitic. All I am suggesting is that some might like to do some research if they don't think there are some "vile Jews" in Israel and Israeli Jews who are also members of terrorist organisations. I have stopped posting a lot of links because people have said they don't read them. That's fine, it's a free world. tbh I have not suggested that anyone needs to research the barbaric atrocities committed on 7/10, nothing I have said at any time justifies what Hamas did and I have consistently condemned it.