Two twelve year olds murder nineteen year old with machete

Specifically on "news and politics" it's reasonable to ask for sources so we can see where a POV or an alleged fact is coming from.

Or, do your own research and find other sources to advance your argument.

Yes, and let each other know, within reason, good idea. It's not so very hard, since everyone must have gained the information from somewhere.

eg 'I read in the Guardian/Telegraph/Mirror .....

I get your point Wyllow3. Why would we want to reveal their identities? Accountability I suppose. If a 12 year old goes around with a machete (for crying out loud) down his jogging pants he’s up to no good and needs to be called out on it.

It’s interesting though to think of innocent siblings. The neighbours will all know the families already.

So now - hmm. I’m not sure!

We have high levels of substance misuse and a long tradition of drink related violence alongside disregard, rejection of what the majority consider socially acceptable behaviour.
I haven’t read the news reports about the two child killers yet. I expect to find histories of neglect, abuse, fractured relationships, non school attendance/exclusion/ inclusion in pupil referral unit etc, though I may be wrong.

We need to address why so many adults behave so badly. Why so many of our children have no childhood, how neglect of the needs of our children is so prevalent

Freya5

petra

The worst little scrote I know of at the moment lives in a £1.5 mil house. His parents have tried everything 😥

Whataboutery.

It’s got nothing to do with whataboutery
It’s has to do with the opinion of some posters here who equate this heinous behaviour with children who’s parents don’t know where they are or what they’re up too.

The teenage killers of Brianna Ghey, although disturbed, did not appear to suffer fractured childhoods, neglect , abuse or exclusion, although clearly something was very badly wrong in their lives.

Iam64

We have high levels of substance misuse and a long tradition of drink related violence alongside disregard, rejection of what the majority consider socially acceptable behaviour.
I haven’t read the news reports about the two child killers yet. I expect to find histories of neglect, abuse, fractured relationships, non school attendance/exclusion/ inclusion in pupil referral unit etc, though I may be wrong.

We need to address why so many adults behave so badly. Why so many of our children have no childhood, how neglect of the needs of our children is so prevalent

You are so right. Its desperately sad. They are not likely to have been plodding along in some leafy suburb with Mum and Dad and an extended family.

zakpuma66 I wouldn't disagree with you, but we need to ask why these children are being brought up like this, and while other children with similar backgrounds are being brought up to meet the expected norms and stabdards of general society.

We are all far too busy analysing all the problems in this aspect of society and that aspect of society, but very short in putting time and resources into dealing with them.

My thoughts are that many people needed a leg up, a friendly face, a bit of a hand through tough times. Its just not there any more.

That doesn't make me some silly Leftie or whatever.

What happened to the law passed in 2022 that states a uk supplier has to check the identity of the purchaser.
Then the courier has to check the age identity of the person receiving the knife.
I’ll answer my own question, nobody in authority gives a shit 😡

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13516739/jailed-drill-rappe.html

read this if you want to know more detail. it' been on all tv news and in other media.

I get horrified at the video games with so much violence that fills minds.

I'd like to ban many of them!

M0nica

zakpuma66 I wouldn't disagree with you, but we need to ask why these children are being brought up like this, and while other children with similar backgrounds are being brought up to meet the expected norms and stabdards of general society.

We are all far too busy analysing all the problems in this aspect of society and that aspect of society, but very short in putting time and resources into dealing with them.

Absolutely!

mOnica there’s evidence that invest

What bothers me is that these boys have been on the Police radar for over a year. Action? None. Why not? The neighbours reported them plenty of times and many were genuinely terrified. What does it take to be heard these days?

Investment in Early Years including Surestart leads to better outcomes. Preventive and support services are decimated
Scandi countries invest and have higher taxes, higher social expectations. They’re doing better than we are

What does it take to be heard these days?

By whom? Nobody cares. The cult of the individual.

Curtaintwitcher

These days there is so much exposure to violence...fictional in films and tv dramas.....real life on the news.
Sorry to say it yet again....but this is what happens when children have too much freedom, poor parenting ,no discipline and are not taught decent standards.
Is it any wonder that so many are dreading a Labour victory....when things are only going to get worse?

An irrelevant point, "dreading a Labour victory" this is a tragic case and shame on you for using it to make a crass political point.

M0nica

chestnut it is not legal to sell a machete to a 12 year old boy. As with another case a few weeks ago, the checks on those buying these items are very lax. I would like to see one of the company's selling these items to children prosecuted.

As for where we can read about this case. it was in all the newspapers today and on theonline news services.

It maks no didfference whther the boy was beng brought up by a parents, grandparents or the couple down the road. If they were responsible for his care they were responsible for his behaviour .

I added this post when I realised it looked as if I was saying it was legal to sell to a 12 year old:
It is obviously not legal to sell to 12 year olds, but it is legal to sell to adults, and who knows, these two boys may have got their blades from the 17 year old who bought 79 of them using his mum's identity.

Curtaintwitcher, these boys were born and raised under a Conservative government.
How has " too much freedom, no discipline and lack of decent standards " been tackled by them over fourteen years ?

CLG
I might not like Conservatives, but really?

Their parents or even grand parents were possibly born and raised under a Labour government. Is that why they have no control over their children or why they allow them to do whatever they want without intervention?

Mollygo

CLG
I might not like Conservatives, but really?

Their parents or even grand parents were possibly born and raised under a Labour government. Is that why they have no control over their children or why they allow them to do whatever they want without intervention?

But Mollygo, CLG was responding to Curtaintwitcher who appears to be one of the many she believes is dreading a Labour government, under whom, apparently, things are only going to get worse.

So if party-politics are going to be dragged into this, then it's relevant, surely, that we have to acknowledge that the Tories have been in government for the last 14 years - when 'things' certainly don't appear to have improved?

My own opinion (not that it's of particular importance) is that the whole matter of youth-crime is complex, and that laying it at the door of either party is a rather simplistic response.

Urmstongran

What bothers me is that these boys have been on the Police radar for over a year. Action? None. Why not? The neighbours reported them plenty of times and many were genuinely terrified. What does it take to be heard these days?

Problem is, what could the police have done until a crime had been committed?

I'm with Iam on the importance of initiatives like Sure Start, start as early as possible, and don't think it should be a political football, it should be firmly on the agenda of any political party.

We had a big fight in my town last week one boy was stabbed, all were under 16, 4 were local 2 from the city.
A county lines drug dispute most likely

Until children are supervised properly it’s going to get worse, at present many parents have no idea what their children are doing, especially teens.