Labour and the Tories have disenfranchised me

Siope

Germanshepherdsmum

And who is going to pay them? Quite apart from the costs of setting up and running a company? Pie in the sky.

I neither know nor care.

Straight out of the knife drawer Siope!

Siope you might not know or care at the moment but a few years down the line, Great British Energy might be causing major disruption to the country and our way of life. £30 billion is quoted but it’s anyone’s guess just now.

DiamondLily

Mollygo

I don’t understand that. I’ve never come across anyone who doesn’t want the best for themselves, whether it’s a house or a chance to get some food they like at a food bank. Most people want things to be better for others too. Are the people who are determined to vote Conservative or Labour or Green or LibDem, doing it out of altruism, regardless of whether others might feel that isn’t the best. Most people are voting for what they think will be best for them.

Of course they do. There used to be a saying that voters vote with their wallets.

They still do. But, it doesn’t stop you wanting a better life for others as well.

And you think Conservatives want that? They haven't shown much evidence of it over the last 14 years.

Casdon

I think peoples motivations vary considerably, so when you say people vote for themselves, it’s not about the impact on their own budgets or immediate families for everybody. Our choice isn’t between starving and having no home or not, it’s about whether we want people’s health, lives, homes, work etc. to be better. We all prioritise, it’s not an either/or.

Why on earth should somebody at the bottom care about the rich getting richer or even maintaining their wealth when the country has become more unequal?

Germanshepherdsmum

My opinion, having seen many of them interviewed. Fortunately I don’t actually know any Labour supporters - they are rare as hens’ teeth in these parts. So my opinion is based on what I see on tv and what I read. Knock it if you like. Anyone incapable of questioning the claim that all Labour’s manifesto promises are fully funded needs to have a long, hard think. It’s no good saying ‘it will take a while’. How long, and how much will everyone end up paying in extra taxes?

GSM I have done a lot of driving around North Norfolk this week and not seen a single Labour poster or board anywhere neither have I had any Labour flyers through our letterbox. Have you? Deathly quiet on the Labour front.

North Norfolk is a predicted Lib Dem win Primrose53, that’s probably why. No point flogging dead horses when there are other seats to be won.

No sign of anything other than Conservative boards Primrose. I have only received a Liberal flyer, which went straight in the bin.

Everywhere we have driven recently. Oxfordshire to Somerset and back, we have seen nothing but Lib Dem posters.

Not sure why.

We’ve had flyers from Lab, Con and Green. I emailed them all the same question, but only Conservatives answered it. Presumably the others wouldn’t.

M0nica

Everywhere we have driven recently. Oxfordshire to Somerset and back, we have seen nothing but Lib Dem posters.

Not sure why.

They're target seats. The LibDems are known for concentrating their efforts on the seats they think they can win.

The only flyer I've had here is from Labour and I've seen some Labour signs, but nothing else. It's still predicted to be a Conservative win, despite having a useless MP.

The amazing thing is that driving through agricultural areas, where in the past the fields have been a sea of blue, they are now a sea of orange

Has anyone seen turquoise and white yet? It’s the party overtaking the blues ….

I have had no flyers yet - I am too far off the beaten track for anyone to bother with.

But if I do get one it will not go straight in the bin - we cannot say it is important to know what each party represents and refuse to read those facts.

Reading a party’s manifesto is far more informative than what you will read on a flyer. All are available to read and ponder on online.

Neither Labour nor Tories have disenfranchised anyone.

But about half of the electorate have been disenfranchised by the First Past The Post voting system because they live in a "safe seat" where a donkey with the right colour of rosette could be elected.

As they did when the leader of Lib.Dem became deputy PM in
Conservative government

Anniebach

As they did when the leader of Lib.Dem became deputy PM in
Conservative government

A real betrayal of those who voted Lib Dem in my opinion. They couldn't wait to get those Ministerial salaries, government cars, red boxes and all the rest of the paraphernalia of high office.

Grantanow what was the alternative?

No leaflets of any kind here yet. Nor any canvassers.

henetha well you will be none the wiser when you do get some leaflets.
The LibDems have written that to keep Labour out of power, we must vote for LibDems. Given that this is a marginal Conservative seat, I would have thought that voting Conservative would have been a safer bet? If Labour is to be denied power…. This is very confusing for the elderly…

ronib

Grantanow what was the alternative?

A good question.. iirc if they had allied with Labour the majority would have been almost nothing as it would have relied on all opposition. parties to get a majority, it wasn't an alternative.

But it cost them dearly in 2010.

Was there an alternative? Can there be a minority government?

I live in, what has been for some years, a safe Tory seat.

The local Lib Dems keep the area informed on what they have been doing but nothing has been circulated, even during any election, by the Tories for a very long time.

However, we had a 4 page leaflet arrive the other day!

I wonder, is the sitting MP finally worried ?

Was there an alternative?

There were several, including a confidence and supply agreement with either Labour (less possible in reality) or the Tories; a coalition with Labour - the numbers were there (Labour’s 258 seats plus the Lib Dems’ 57 and the three SDLP MPs would have been 318 seats against 315 for the Conservatives and the DUP combined. Add in the SNP, Plaid and Greens, and the progressive majority is about 325-318) or, of course, saying no to both main parties and letting the Tories chance their luck as a minority government . I believe they’d have fallen quickly.

I think it was John Rentoul who wrote a longish ‘what if it was a Lib-Lab coalition’, after the Brexit referendum which was quite entertaining.

Wyllow3

ronib

Grantanow what was the alternative?

A good question.. iirc if they had allied with Labour the majority would have been almost nothing as it would have relied on all opposition. parties to get a majority, it wasn't an alternative.

But it cost them dearly in 2010.

Was there an alternative? Can there be a minority government?

There was no possibility after the 2010 GE of a LibDem/ Labour government. The numbers did not add up.

Because of our undemocratic FPTP electoral system the Cons, with only 36% of the votes got 306 seats, Labour, with 29% of the votes got 256 seats ad the LibDems, with 23% of the votes got only 57 seats.

Under Ptoportional representation, assuming everyone had voted the same way, the result would have been Cons 234, Labour 189, LibDem 180.

Obviously this would have resulted in a Labour/LibDem coalition which most LibDem voters would have preferred

Faced with the undemocrtatic distortion of FPTP, the LibDems had to make a very difficult decision and decided to put the country before the party, for the first time in UK politics.

I think the reasons the LibDems went into coalition with the Tories have been explored quite a lot, and are generally agreed to be:

- Clegg and the orange book liberals were very pro-Tory
- Gordon Brown’s unwillingness to accept that he would need to resign immediately, which was a a key requirement of the LibDems - he offered to do so in the following Autumn, but Clegg refused to consider this
- David Milliband (then widely seen as Brown’s successor) being reluctant to stand, or even support, a Labour leadership contest, as he felt it wasn’t fair to the country to have another unelected PM