Starmer's stubbornness

True, not all children fill their potential at schools. Most parents do the best they can for their children - as Maddyone’s son and Gloriannie did

Iam64

True, not all children fill their potential at schools. Most parents do the best they can for their children - as Maddyone’s son and Gloriannie did

Which is fine. But I still don't see why the taxpayer should fund Eton.

I think you must know I agree with Labour on this

Eton is at the very extreme of independent schooling and isn’t representative.

What next, VAT on university tuition fees? VAT on charges for vocational education? Where exactly is the difference?

I certainly did pay business rates on the school property Glorianny. Initially, because we lived in the building as a family, it was split business/residential. When the school needed to expand, we moved out and bought a bed house. From what I remember the entire school building was subject to business rates

*a new house not bed?

"What next, VAT on university tuition fees? VAT on charges for vocational education? Where exactly is the difference?"

These two are open to all irrespective of income.

The same is not the case in private education. I wholeheartedly agree that charitable status is not appropriate.

Joseann

I certainly did pay business rates on the school property Glorianny. Initially, because we lived in the building as a family, it was split business/residential. When the school needed to expand, we moved out and bought a bed house. From what I remember the entire school building was subject to business rates

Then you probably didn't have charitable status. Places that do like Eton get a reduction in their rates, it is usually around 80% but it can be up to 100%
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/664714f7b7249a4c6e9d36c4/Opposition_Costing_-_Business_Rates_Private_Schools_HMT_version__004_.pdf

Why should Eton not pay?

I think there's going to be an awful lot of educational providers caught up in this when they shouldn't be. Where do we stand on nurseries attached to private schools for example?

One option I see is for independent schools to start up a new named company and to put all childcare under this heading in order to avoid the 20% tax. Plus any other loopholes, as mentioned earlier.

DH is out sailing at the moment, but I'm sure he reckoned that, with creative accounting, the actual figure subject to the increased tax could be as little as a third of the fees collected by the school. Keir Starmer might need to have a bit of a rethink if he is expecting £xmillions from the full fees collected by the schools.

No one knows exactly how this will be administered yet. Maybe even the party wanting to implement it will need a bit of back tracking in certain areas. Interesting times.

I wonder how much your school's business rates were Joseann? Possibly you paid more than Eton
Among the beneficiaries are Eton, whose bill for business rates would have been in excess of £4m, but is, in fact, only £821,000.

Interesting to hear about your expedience and to learn from your knowledge Joseann. I certainly hope that this petty plan doesn’t succeed in the way Labour hope. Though of course if it doesn’t bring in the money they expect there will be tax rises elsewhere. The next obvious target imo is inheritance tax. Their old Labour jealousy of anyone who is perceived to have money is very clear.

For heavens sake Labour aren’t out to get anyone with money. But they are out to get the people that were given all those contracts during the pandemic for things that they weren’t able to produce because the government had to give the contracts out to their mates. Imo the Conservative Party that you seem to idolise disappeared when Boris Johnson became their leader; they are not the same party. I mean, several of them are currently under investigation for putting bets on re the date of the election because they had inside information. It is now a party that is rotten at it’s core and I feel sorry for the decent Conservatives MP’s that escaped Johnson’s cull.

The Universities are asking Labour to put up tuition fees according to the Financial Times, “to keep their ship afloat”.

The universities are in a financial mess. The impact of changes for foreign students will add to that

I don’t idolise the Conservative Party MayBee and never have - if I did I would probably be a member. But I very much dislike what Labour stand for. I voted for Blair. The Labour Party today is once again a party which will do all it can to punish those it perceives to have wealth. I would not call working parents scrimping and saving to give their child the best education they can, but they, and their children, will be the victims of this policy - for those with real wealth it will be water off a duck’s back.

Germanshepherdsmum

I don’t idolise the Conservative Party MayBee and never have - if I did I would probably be a member. But I very much dislike what Labour stand for. I voted for Blair. The Labour Party today is once again a party which will do all it can to punish those it perceives to have wealth. I would not call working parents scrimping and saving to give their child the best education they can, but they, and their children, will be the victims of this policy - for those with real wealth it will be water off a duck’s back.

We were working parents; I worked part time and my husband was a top engineer in his field. But no matter how much we scrimped and saved we would not have had enough money to privately educate our children. So I don’t buy into the idea that if working parents just do without a few of life’s luxuries they can send their children to private school. I think you inhabit a different economic universe to me. But both me and my kids are prepared to pay more in tax if that money provides a good education for every child in this country.

Glorrianny I appreciate that you have answered my query, and described your own circumstances, which you say you don’t often do. It was necessary for me to describe my son’s situation in order to say how he has straddled both systems in order to do the best for his child. We are all concerned about how this little person will get on at senior school, but he will have to adapt, as all children do.
I also understand ADHD. We have members of my family who have this condition, including one of our grandchildren, not the one I was talking about in the earlier posts. This child is also in an independent school, but in another country. The small class sizes are beneficial for him. The school are aware and supportive. If he returns to England, an independent school will be unaffordable and he will attend a state senior school. His parents are engaged in a difficult divorce situation I’m afraid.

Iam64

True, not all children fill their potential at schools. Most parents do the best they can for their children - as Maddyone’s son and Gloriannie did

Thank you Iam.
I think most parents do the best they can in whatever circumstances they find themselves.

Reading this thread (and others like it) brings into sharp focus, for me, just how differently some of us view society.

For some, being asked to pay a little more tax to contribute towards the greater good, is viewed as being ‘punished’; whilst others are willing to contribute, for the good of all.

I suppose, it comes down to a fundamentally different way in how we view our fellow citizens and, from that, the sort of country we want to inhabit.

Yes Lizzy.

You said it yourself MayBee, you were working part time. If you had been working full time perhaps you could have afforded fees. I don’t live in a different economic universe - as a single parent working full time but with little or no financial support from my ex I couldn’t afford to send my son to an independent school.

This election has brought out the divide between those of us willing to pay more tax to benefit society and those who arent

Iam64 or how about paying buckets of taxes with little end user benefit? So self funding education and healthcare thus freeing up school places and hospital appointments?
I am surprised to find out how the apparently rich elderly in need are assessed too. Zero support from Social Services.

Iam64

This election has brought out the divide between those of us willing to pay more tax to benefit society and those who arent

It’s also highlighted those who haven’t the wherewithal to pay any more in tax. They aren’t just the visible poor, but those who are earning what should be a decent wage that is swallowed up in mortgages, especially living down south, childcare fees in order to earn that wage, university fees, etc.

Not the very rich, or even the moderately rich, but those whose circumstances look good on paper, but don’t translate into good in real life.
Those for whom the mortgage rate and fuel price increases pushed them almost to breaking point, but aren’t poor in the accepted sense of the word.

It’s great that some feel able to pay more tax, especially those comfortably off in retirement with no mortgage or other high output payments.
However, is it right to judge people whose circumstances we know nothing about, for being unwilling to see even more of their money disappear, especially without knowing that it will be used for the benefit of those more in need and not just swallowed up?

ronib

Iam64 or how about paying buckets of taxes with little end user benefit? So self funding education and healthcare thus freeing up school places and hospital appointments?
I am surprised to find out how the apparently rich elderly in need are assessed too. Zero support from Social Services.

All can get help from SSD tho resources slim but costs of care are assessed according to income and savings and have been for a very long time.
Attendance allowance isn't means assessed.