Junior doctors pay offer

Ilovecheese

Nothing like enough to stop them going somewhere that pays more. As usual, we rely on their goodwill.

Indeed. I do hope the pay raise helps stem tho out-flow.

THE out-flow

Interesting: salary for a junior doctor
Foundation year one (FY1): Approximately £28,808 per year.
Specialty training (ST) at years six to eight: £56,077 per year.
Specialist grade doctor: £83,945 to £92,275 per year.

How long does the tern junior doctor apply?
A pay rise of between 8.1% and 10.3% as well as a backdated 4.05% increase for 2023-24 on the above salaries seems rather generous to me.
A junior Doctor sent me home from A & E diagnosing a tension headache; four days later my GP correctly identified my headache as a sub-arachnoid haemorrhage and I was admitted to hospital.
Some years later another junior doctor at the same A &E dept discharged me as needing no further treatment, without seeing me; 5 hours later the Special Nurse Practitioner identified a broken wrist. So I am not altogether convinced that Junior Doctors are worthy of this enormous pay rise.

I’m also pleased for the doctors, although I still think it insufficient. Their pay dropped by 35%, not 22%. It is not good enough to allow the pay of doctors to erode in value and think it acceptable.

Incidentally doctors in training basically means student doctors. They cease being student doctors after they’ve finished their 5/6 year medical degree. Then they are fully recognised as doctors. They then do two years in a hospital working on a variety of rotations in order to gain experience. These years are called F1 and F2 (Foundation Doctors.) They are then free to take up a training post in the specialty of their choice. Some training posts last three years, others six or seven years. These posts are Registrar
posts. Some doctors spend some time working in hospital in a variety of short term placements whilst deciding which specialty they wish to follow.

My grandson graduates as a doctor this year after many years of training and for his first year out as a qualified doctor he will be called an intern attached to various hospitals. The pay for his level is around $80,000, his first pay year after racking up a huge debt for his training ( 7 years for him) Then if he specialises another 2 or 3 years full time on the job training. You’d have to really want to do it !

Thought I'd just link to the BMI definitions prepared to explainthe names/"ranks" to doctors from elsewhere:

www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/international-doctors/life-and-work-in-the-uk/toolkit-for-doctors-new-to-the-uk/doctors-titles-explained

I thought I'd post this article which was written last year by a junior doctor.

"I’ll tell you why junior doctors are striking: things are so unsafe we have no choice"

"Because we don’t pay doctors enough, there are too few of us. It’s all we can do to stop people dying in NHS waiting rooms"

"Four in 10 junior doctors in the UK plan to leave if they can find another job. In emergency medicine we all know colleagues who are talented and dedicated, the sort of doctor who you’d want to treat your nan – and who are now working in Australia."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/11/junior-doctors-strike-pay-nhs-corridors

ronib

So we now know that a resident doctor hasn’t quite completed training to become a full consultant/specialist? It’s worth noting if you are being treated for a serious complaint.

Registrars are (or were, I can't quite keep up) still in the 'junior doctor' category. These are fully trained and experienced specialist doctors who haven't yet managed to achieve consultant status. It doesn't mean that they are inferior in any way.

MaizieD I don’t know how you thought I meant inferior? It’s very well known that it takes many years of training to reach consultant level. However the next time I see a doctor - sadly quite soon - I do like to know where he is in the pecking order. Although some consultants have not quite got the hang of patient communication …, and leave it to the registrar to better explain a condition! There’s a lot of muddling along these days …

Just read that the local hospital rebuilding is paused. I thought it was fully funded …. Such a mystery we really are down the rabbit hole!

MaizieD

ronib

So we now know that a resident doctor hasn’t quite completed training to become a full consultant/specialist? It’s worth noting if you are being treated for a serious complaint.

Registrars are (or were, I can't quite keep up) still in the 'junior doctor' category. These are fully trained and experienced specialist doctors who haven't yet managed to achieve consultant status. It doesn't mean that they are inferior in any way.

All doctors who are not consultants are currently classed as junior doctors. It’s not specific to them being in training, many of them are not, they are qualified and experienced, but at a lower level than consultants. For example, GPs working for sessions in a hospital are clinical assistants, there are staff grade(SAS), associate specialist etc. grades as well as doctors in training.

It hardly matters what we call the NHS doctors as I doubt they will survive this Labour government…,

eezybee
How long does the tern junior doctor apply?
A "further" 11 years if you go into maxiofacial!

ronib, what makes you think that doctors will not " survive this Labour government"?

Chocolatelovingran The NHS has grown away from its original principles and is treating many more people for many more illnesses than back in the 1940s. It has morphed into a huge bureaucracy and I rather guess Wes Streeting has plans to make changes.
Why else would he block the 40 hospitals build? I think Streeting is moving towards a private health system. I would like to be wrong.

Once the two years of this pay deal is up, I will be so surprised if they get much more in the annual pay reviews.
They will get constantly reminded they got a substantial increase 2 years prior.

You are a one ronib.

Highly skilled professionals who have undergone rigorous training, working long hours in an extremely demanding and exhausting environment deserve our respect. We need to appreciate our jumior doctors a whole lot more. Yes it does matter what we call them!

Steelygran there’s no guarantee that the NHS will survive in its current format under this new Labour government. Of course all due respect and homage to the medical profession but I would not be surprised if Labour privatises the NHS in some way.
It’s interesting that the election manifesto from Labour was 128 pages long …. Perhaps we missed the little details in all the print?

Here you are ronib.
labour.org.uk/updates/stories/labour-party-health-policy-how-we-will-build-an-nhs-fit-for-the-future/

Strange how the attitude towards health workers has gone from clapping them in the street to begrudging them a pay rise that still isn’t really enough to compensate from years of being underpaid by the Tories.

Casdon When? How?

I shall of course welcome this if it ever happens. But we are a country which has been consistently fed false promises so pardon my cynicism…..

I do remember some of your previous predictions of doom ronib. Time will tell, I’m sure.

MayBee70

Strange how the attitude towards health workers has gone from clapping them in the street to begrudging them a pay rise that still isn’t really enough to compensate from years of being underpaid by the Tories.

Agree with this Maybee.
How anyone can begrudge this I don’t understand.
It’s not a pay increase, it’s pay restoration.
Except even this doesn’t actually restore their pay, but goes some way towards it.

My daughter's friend has sometimes been the only doctor looking after 70 patients, at a well known and respected hospital. She says herself that this isn't safe and the last thing we need is anything that will encourage even more doctors to leave.