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The right to peaceful protest in the UK

(166 Posts)
GrannyGravy13 Fri 02-Aug-24 09:18:33

I am all for planned peaceful protest in the U.K.

I am totally against rioting by any faction of society.

Here is my personal conundrum - when the protests turned into riots and kicked off in Leeds, buses burnt, police cars overturned and police attacked the police withdrew.

When the protests kicked off in Southport the police waded in, full force riot shields and dogs.

What started out as a peaceful protest in London ended with the police wading in and arresting random people. One they had to un-arrest as it turned out that he was just walking to the station after leaving work, and found himself in the midst.

At the Sarah Everade (sp) vigil the police were heavy handed towards one white female in particular.

In no way do I condone two tier policing but as an observer I am beginning to get why some young (predominantly white, but not all are) men are feeling that their concerns are met with greater force and resistance than those of other sections of the community.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 02-Aug-24 20:11:26

Oreo

As to policing of riots or near riots, I think the perpetrators should be treated the same if they’re committing offences , don’t know what Keir Starmer has said to the police about this matter but we should all be treated equally under the laws of the land.

They are.

But those groups classified as far right are going further. They are inciting violence throughout the country.

There is plenty of footage now on X showing violence kicking off in various places.

Galaxy Fri 02-Aug-24 20:12:45

I think Sunderland is uneasy tonight. Again like Hartlepool this cant be a surprise.

Casdon Fri 02-Aug-24 20:17:35

Oreo

As to policing of riots or near riots, I think the perpetrators should be treated the same if they’re committing offences , don’t know what Keir Starmer has said to the police about this matter but we should all be treated equally under the laws of the land.

I’d agree, it’s the acts they commit which warrant punishment. I think there should be a more serious punishment for inciting riot. I hope the changes proposed to increase the police response, improved cybersecurity, and creation of capacity in jails will ultimately help.

Oreo Fri 02-Aug-24 20:19:51

Tbh I thought there were already punishments for inciting riots, you would certainly think so, even if a person doesn’t take part in the said riot themselves?

Wyllow3 Fri 02-Aug-24 20:21:09

And they and their apologists say they are "protecting our culture"?

Wyllow3 Fri 02-Aug-24 20:25:30

Casdon

Oreo

As to policing of riots or near riots, I think the perpetrators should be treated the same if they’re committing offences , don’t know what Keir Starmer has said to the police about this matter but we should all be treated equally under the laws of the land.

I’d agree, it’s the acts they commit which warrant punishment. I think there should be a more serious punishment for inciting riot. I hope the changes proposed to increase the police response, improved cybersecurity, and creation of capacity in jails will ultimately help.

Agreed: could "conspiracy to...." laws could be used? Certainly X posts from key offenders?

varian Fri 02-Aug-24 20:27:27

WE don'y need new ;laws. Just charge all those who show up on CCTV breaking the law.

Casdon Fri 02-Aug-24 20:32:57

Oreo

Tbh I thought there were already punishments for inciting riots, you would certainly think so, even if a person doesn’t take part in the said riot themselves?

There are punishments, but I suspect because of lack of capacity in jails both inciters and rioters get sentences that are very short. If anybody has any knowledge about this it would be h good to know.

Oreo Fri 02-Aug-24 20:34:22

We could ask Donald Trump?😲

Wyllow3 Fri 02-Aug-24 20:37:22

varian

WE don'y need new ;laws. Just charge all those who show up on CCTV breaking the law.

Glad we have CCTV for this.

But those behind the riots openly post on Social media, and I'd like to see "incitement" on X or FB as a crime by key individuals.

Doodledog Fri 02-Aug-24 20:45:59

I have often said on here that the terms left and right are (IMO) often used where they don't really apply. People who perceive their own views as being Left or Right, and therefore Correct and Virtuous sometimes see accusing people of being the other as a (lazy) insult, and use them without thinking.

Sexism, racism and homophobia exist in all religions and on both the political Left and Right, as do notions of protecting 'our' jobs and 'our' way of life from 'others'. So, of course do inclusivity and respect for human life.

The recent riots, however, have been shown to be orchestrated by the Far Right, notably the EDL, using populist slogans and tropes, and rallying people on all forms of social media with incitement to riot, supposedly in the name of 'protest'. Witness the Nazi salutes in London.

It is easier for them to attract people who are already annoyed (or furious) at the idea of a Labour government, even when it is anything more than right of centre of the left wing (if that makes sense - it sort of did when I was writing it grin) and blame them for what's happening as though it is an extension of their policies. They haven't had time to put long-term policies in place yet, so can't be blamed for creating the conditions that have led to the riots. Or so any reasonable person would realise.

Gaza complicates all of this. I really don't know what people on either side expect UK politicians of any party to do about a foreign war, but the situation is horrible, and understandably feelings are running high about that, too.

All we know about what happened in Leeds and the other flashpoints is what we have read or seen in the media or online unless we were there, and more information is coming through by the day. Obviously where families are concerned the authorities have to protect anonymity, and the finer points are confidential, but it seems that in Leeds the Local Authority has agreed that mistakes were made concerning the Roma family that triggered the riot. That is in no way to excuse it, but the Harehills area is deprived, it was hot (which always makes riots more likely) and sometimes an incident can seem like the last straw (eg when a police car ran into boys in Wales).

I completely agree that everyone should be treated the same under the law. 100%. But I remain to be convinced that 2 minute videos circulating on X and TikTok tell the whole story.

The reason (if there is one) for the dreadful killings of the children in Stockport is nothing to do with immigration. The perpetrator is from Wales, and his ethnic origin doesn't suggest that he will be Muslim. That was all deliberate misinformation, along with other nonsense about his being on a Prevent list etc, and whether it originated from Putin (Left) or Robinson (Right) doesn't matter. It was done to destabilise British society, and those of us who genuinely want to protect our culture have to hope it doesn't succeed.

Oreo Fri 02-Aug-24 20:46:17

Facial recognition is a very useful tool for the Police.

Wyllow3 Fri 02-Aug-24 20:48:10

Thank you Doodledog

Doodledog Fri 02-Aug-24 20:50:34

Oreo

Facial recognition is a very useful tool for the Police.

It is. As is collecting IP addresses, which can be done even when a VPN is used.

It's a scary thought though. I associate facial recognition with Russia and China, not the UK. Maybe if it's used in limited circumstances and only to find specific people it's tolerable? I don't know.

karmalady Fri 02-Aug-24 20:50:58

Two tier Keir. Very apt. He is a poor leader

Primrose53 Fri 02-Aug-24 20:53:56

Oreo

Doodledog

growstuff

I welcome the contributions from the publicity machines of various anti-social movements on this thread. I guess it all adds to the info base.

I’ve been thinking the same.

I haven’t.
In fact I think it’s an inflammatory statement to make on a thread.
Either name the posters that you think are from ‘the publicity
Machines of various anti social movements on this thread’ or ask the mods to remove it.
Just cos you don’t agree with a different viewpoint doesn’t mean you can say this about GN posters.
There’s been quite a few commenting lately about how things have changed on the site and disliking the ‘unpleasantness’ well I for one think this remark growstuff is uber unpleasant.

As always Oreo your post nails it!

Oreo Fri 02-Aug-24 21:00:14

Why thank you ma’am 😊

JN450 Fri 02-Aug-24 21:07:18

Oreo

Doodledog

growstuff

I welcome the contributions from the publicity machines of various anti-social movements on this thread. I guess it all adds to the info base.

I’ve been thinking the same.

I haven’t.
In fact I think it’s an inflammatory statement to make on a thread.
Either name the posters that you think are from ‘the publicity
Machines of various anti social movements on this thread’ or ask the mods to remove it.
Just cos you don’t agree with a different viewpoint doesn’t mean you can say this about GN posters.
There’s been quite a few commenting lately about how things have changed on the site and disliking the ‘unpleasantness’ well I for one think this remark growstuff is uber unpleasant.

My tingling spider senses tell me my differing opinions could make me one, though apologies in advance if I've got that wrong. I hate to disappoint though, I'm just a regular Grandparent with a spare hour or two today who chipped in with my opinion for what it's worth.

As Im sure everyone on here does, I support the freedom to protest peacefully and abhor the violent rioting. I know the original post from GG3 didn't feel two tier policing exists (though understands why people may think that), but I do as stated in my posts. Again I have to disappoint though. I am not disenfranchised, I don't have a lack of education, I don't come from a troubled family and I'm not financially insecure. I just want everyone to be treated the same which I personally dont always feel happens for the reasons I stated previously. If anyone wants to correct me on any point I raised I certainly stand to be corrected if I got anything factually wrong (as someone has done previously so thank you for that).

Doodledog Fri 02-Aug-24 21:08:55

I'm sure we are all chipping in with our opinions though. That's all I'm doing.

growstuff Fri 02-Aug-24 22:15:08

It's strange how people think they're the only ones entitled to an opinion, but label anything which contradicts it "unpleasant".

(As if I care!)

GrannyGravy13 Sun 04-Aug-24 12:22:55

I have come back to this thread in light of the continuing protests and riots which appear to be escalating and spreading across England and N.I.

Is it time to have a discussion with the leaders and agitators?

Whitewavemark2 Sun 04-Aug-24 12:29:16

Those agitators are largely on the web.

Wyllow3 Sun 04-Aug-24 13:52:14

I'd really really like to see it GG13 as the situation seems to be getting more inflamed and discussion in GN bitter but apart from recalling parliament I don't see a platform for viable discussion because we are facing new situations.

Until recently groups were organised and leaders out there to discuss with.

biglouis Sun 04-Aug-24 13:58:54

The police allowed all Covid rules to be broken whilst simultaneously charging two women who went for a socially distanced walk and stopped to drink coffee - in the middle of absolutely nowhere. Those women had to pay fines for sitting either end of a bench to drink their coffee, meanwhile during the BLM riots

The police allowed a bunch of migrants to protest about the wifi and halal food at the height of the lock down too. A wonderfull example of two tier policing.

GrannyGravy13 Sun 04-Aug-24 14:02:43

It must be fairly simple to track down the agitators/leaders even if they are mainly online.

They know Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (Robinson) is in Spain, we have an excellent cyber security team in the U.K. who should be able to locate the leaders

The PM really needs to read the room there are many disenfranchised citizens in the U.K., not all are rioting and/or looting.

They are looking and observing though, and maybe marching on our streets any day now…