Starmer and his holiday.

What sort of UK policing situations would you see them as useful in, pantglas ?

Pantglas2

vegansrock

The EU don’t have water cannon, that’s a decision for individual sovereign states.

My mistake - if it’s good enough for EU member states… we can abide by their rules?

It's not so long since the matter of water cannon was raised on this forum. The use of them was banned in England and Wales by the then Home Secretary, Theresa May, on safety grounds. This ban has never been lifted and Johnson's white elephants were sold at a considerable loss.

Wyllow3

What sort of UK policing situations would you see them as useful in, pantglas ?

The exact same as EU countries that deem it necessary…no more, no less .

Posted this elsethread pantglas but thought it might be of interest safety wise

I'm not sure how many UK situations its helpful in.

For example amongst the crowd of rioters in Rotherham - which was an appalling situation - there were children amongst the back of the crowd, possibly older people. (Visible on images) Imagine the consequences.

It may be that a situation could develop where it would be effective, but second guessing the situation in advance and getting cannons there within the hour or so?

There's also damage done, powerful cannons on property, especially if its in a residential area - could it affect utilities?

There are also people who would love to be able to be cast as "victims of OTT police" in the media "heroes"

They are used in France where its a sort of longstanding tradition to turn out for street mob riots versus police and water cannons - they aren't the same.

MaizieD

Pantglas2

vegansrock

The EU don’t have water cannon, that’s a decision for individual sovereign states.

My mistake - if it’s good enough for EU member states… we can abide by their rules?

It's not so long since the matter of water cannon was raised on this forum. The use of them was banned in England and Wales by the then Home Secretary, Theresa May, on safety grounds. This ban has never been lifted and Johnson's white elephants were sold at a considerable loss.

I repeat.

Water cannon are banned in England and Wales.

Banned = their use is not permitted.

So why are people discussing them?

So France, Germany, Poland, Netherlands off the top of my head - all in the wrong… ah well!

Try behaving like those hooligans in our cities in the Med countries and you’ll see why they carry guns as a matter of course!

A big no from me.

I thank goodness every day we are fortunate enough that our police don't routinely carry guns.

When that happens, then criminals and thugs will start to "Carry". Knives are bad enough.

Just imagine if the perpetrator of the murders had had a gun, like they do in the mass murders in the states.

Police do and can use tear gas if absolutely necessary.

I don’t think water cannons are completely banned here, but the police have to get ministerial approval to use them (at least, that’s what I remember from Teresa May’s ruling, it may have changed since).

Pantglas2

MayBee70

Pantglas2

Indeed Callistemon! Or Boris with his water cannons, back in the day!

But they didn’t work and were a waste of public money.

EU don’t agree…

They literally didn’t work. He paid a lot of money for something that couldn’t be used. Something to do with parts not being compatible. Johnson wasn’t a details man.

So give us the ‘details’ …why they wouldn’t work in 🇬🇧 but some European countries evidently did?

“I thank goodness every day we are fortunate enough that our police don't routinely carry guns.”

Me too Willow - I’ve spent a lot of time in EU countries where that is the case and it never ceases to scare me. However they appeared to police their strict COVID restrictions a lot better than the UK…go figure!

It appears you can police by consent, as we do, or by force as so many EU countries do, and live with the consequences.

Social disorder is different in different countries, that's why.

If you want to know more, google water cannons on wiki.

Pantglas2

So give us the ‘details’ …why they wouldn’t work in 🇬🇧 but some European countries evidently did?

I can’t imagine Teresa May would have taken the decision lightly, she was thorough. Presumably it was related to concerns for public safety?

Casdon

I don’t think water cannons are completely banned here, but the police have to get ministerial approval to use them (at least, that’s what I remember from Teresa May’s ruling, it may have changed since).

When I looked it up last week May's ruling was that they were not permitted and it still stood.

Anyway, we don't possess any and they're not the sort of thing that you can nip round to your local B & Q for, so it's a bit pointless to carry on speculating about using them. 😆

Casdon

Pantglas2

So give us the ‘details’ …why they wouldn’t work in 🇬🇧 but some European countries evidently did?

I can’t imagine Teresa May would have taken the decision lightly, she was thorough. Presumably it was related to concerns for public safety?

Google is your friend, pantglas, as I discovered when I looked this up last week. I even found May's decision on the uk.gov pages.

And posted a link to it...

The police have a hard time of it and tend to be blamed whatever actions or non actions they take. Wouldn’t have their job for quids! Dangerous, stressful and not particularly well rewarded.

They must have been exhausted yesterday.

In the event of a PM being unable to fulfil his role he nominates the most appropriate cabinet member to deal with the crisis in hand. In this event that would be Yvette Cooper. The role of Deputy Prime Minister does not mean that person is the second in command.

I am extremely relieved to hear that, and I am not joking.

Cobra meeting this morning.

Not that I expect much to come out of it, but it ensures that everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet.

Everyone must be utterly exhausted.

Pantglas2

So give us the ‘details’ …why they wouldn’t work in 🇬🇧 but some European countries evidently did?

I was wondering about that myself.
They will work if we want them to.

Cobra has will gather ministers, civil servants, the police and intelligence officers. Cleverley says (I player) a Cobra meeting should have been held last week but I think it's timely as there is a clearer picture now.

Who’s everyone Whitewavemark2 apart from the police on the front line.

Oreo - I’d add politicians to the list of exhausted people. They’ve had a gruelling election campaign, the Conservatives have a leadership crisis (again) and recess was due.

The buck stops there, that’s their job which they’re very well paid for and they wanted those jobs badly.
I only have sympathy for the Police who have to do all the ground work.

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