Teachers leaving the profession

I don't think that's necessarily true. Nice little village schools only need one family of feral children to join and it can disrupt the whole school.

I don’t doubt that’s right, but parents who can afford it will move house to ensure their children will not have to compete for the teacher’s attention with ‘feral children’, or any other children, who don’t want to learn, especially at senior level. As for the nice little village school, what kind of Head Teacher would allow a family of feral children to disrupt his/her whole school? I know that the head teacher of my son’s junior school - a force to be reckoned with - would not have countenanced it, and that was a village school. Perhaps there are more constraints on head teachers these days.

I assume that means that money will be provided to employ more. There are lots of people trained to teach, but not enough in schools' budgets to take them on.

Where are the 6500 new teachers coming from announced in the election pledge?

40,000 left the profession in 2022/23.

I don't blame the teachers. These days they have had a difficult job whatever class and year they're in. In my time as a pupil if you sniffed you had to find a hanky and as a teacher you had to be fair but stern. As a primary teacher I was pushed into a cupboard once by a parent but somehow we ended up OK - not best buddies but understood each other better. There's no way I would suggest teaching to my family these days. What a shame! How can the situation be changed?

Greyduster

There are all manner of problems related to education these days. The number of pupils in inner city schools that don’t have a firm grasp of the English language, and who have no culture of education - in fact, are in post 11 education and have never been to school. There is very little support for teachers in situations like this where pupils can be bored and disruptive. If you spend half your working day trying to settle a class down so that learning can take place, it’s no wonder teachers are leaving in droves. Large classes, a horrendous work load and not enough support from parents. A recipe for disaster. Of course, if you are lucky enough to get a job in a school in the right catchment area, you will experience very few of these problems. It’s very much a two tier system.

I don't think that's necessarily true.
Nice little village schools only need one family of feral children to join and it can disrupt the whole school.

Callistemon213

DD now teaches adults who want to learn.

And therein lies the difference.

Smileless2012

DS taught in a private school for a year Callistemon, a Christian Academy and said there was no support for teachers and the students ruled the roost.

If parents were contacted about their child's behaviour and they contacted the Principal, it was the student who was supported over and above teaching staff.

DD's friend is H of D in an Anglican school Smileless; it's fine. She moved from a State school where she had been threatened by a pupil and pupil's father until she was terrified, but nothing was done.

Mollygo

Aveline

Can I ask where these teachers that leave the profession go? Do they all just retire? Or are there jobs that they are better suited to?

DD2 went into technology and management of that dept at a University. She won awards for organisation and client support. And no one threw chairs at her or expected her to do endless lesson plans.

DD now teaches adults who want to learn.

There are all manner of problems related to education these days. The number of pupils in inner city schools that don’t have a firm grasp of the English language, and who have no culture of education - in fact, are in post 11 education and have never been to school. There is very little support for teachers in situations like this where pupils can be bored and disruptive. If you spend half your working day trying to settle a class down so that learning can take place, it’s no wonder teachers are leaving in droves. Large classes, a horrendous work load and not enough support from parents. A recipe for disaster. Of course, if you are lucky enough to get a job in a school in the right catchment area, you will experience very few of these problems. It’s very much a two tier system.

DS taught in a private school for a year Callistemon, a Christian Academy and said there was no support for teachers and the students ruled the roost.

If parents were contacted about their child's behaviour and they contacted the Principal, it was the student who was supported over and above teaching staff.

Aveline

Can I ask where these teachers that leave the profession go? Do they all just retire? Or are there jobs that they are better suited to?

DD2 went into technology and management of that dept at a University. She won awards for organisation and client support. And no one threw chairs at her or expected her to do endless lesson plans.

A close relative was forced to resign from her state secondary school teaching job (DTech). She was teaching in a class of 33 kids, mostly statemented, with no assistants. The classroom was an odd design with a wall dividing the room. The previous term she had flagged her concerns over lack of visibility of some pupils. She did a full statement including with measurements and pictures of the problems. It wasn’t received well by the head teacher. A pupil that was deemed to be a suicide risk managed to sneak out of the busy room. As an ex mental health worker I wonder why the headmaster assured the child’s welfare team that s/he would be looked after in the full knowledge that there wasn’t the staff to do so. Within minutes the school counsellor whom the child had gone to, flagged it. Police were called as it was dereliction of duty/failure of duty of care. After some short investigation she was given the option to either resign, with a disclosure agreement, or be sacked and banned from working with children ever again. She is a dedicated teacher, goes above and beyond always, and is probably one of the kindest caring people you could meet. She had a breakdown and is still on antidepressants. And then the government wonder why good teachers are leaving in droves.

Can I ask where these teachers that leave the profession go? Do they all just retire? Or are there jobs that they are better suited to?

As you said earlier Doodledog the need for a supportive SLT is important and helps.
One the parent is always right head,
made dealing with issues more difficult and more than one of us often called on the union for support.

A more supportive head meant that we could refuse to see certain parents unless the head (or deputy) was in attendance.

Phrases like, What’s he here for? gave an idea of how the meeting would go.
My least favourite parent ranted about how unfairly her child was treated, and that he hadn’t meant to hurt the other child, then said she would see the head about this totally forgetting that the head was there.

Fortunately, the pleasure of teaching overrides the occasional bad day, but I understood why DD2 decided after 18 months, that it wasn’t for her.

I think it is deeply worrying that teachers are leaving due to the problems stated. We will end up with unsuitable people teaching our children. That worries me more than anything because children need quality teachers to educate and inspire them.

For an example of unsuitable people, this headteacher was sentenced yesterday for harassing a younger member of staff, but what shocked me was the way he behaved when arrested. Instead of walking away with the Police with some dignity, he just fell to the ground, accused them of hurting him and refused to get up! It reminded me of a 3 year old having a tantrum, but he was a headteacher! The thought of him running a school is deeply shocking.
Footage here (only some of it though!)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w00uC-hGPc
Article here:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqjlr5d55rpo

My perception is, that higher standards are achieved in the Far East, China, Japan, S Korea for example, from a combination of the teacher having complete control in the classroom. Misbehaviour not tolerated and possibly an overload of work and expectations. Certainly that was an impression that I got from a programme on S Korea's education system.

Some private schools are more affordable here but tend to be religious schools, eg Anglican and Catholic.
There meaning in Australia.

Smileless2012

Am I right in thinking you're in Australia nanna?

DS teaches there and has been becoming increasingly disillusioned for the reasons you've listed in your OP.

Some private schools are more affordable here but tend to be religious schools, eg Anglican and Catholic.

Just like here, many State schools have pupils who are totally out of control but it is difficult to discipline them.
Even at primary level here in the UK, in a lovely school , some out-of-control children run amok, hitting and biting staff, throwing equipment around and physical restraint is not allowed.
It makes life exceedingly difficult for staff and for other pupils who want to learn

Mollygo

Poor behaviour of some children. Poor support from some parents and their current ambition to get a label for their child that they think will excuse the poor behaviour instead of supporting the teacher.

The lack of parental support must be very frustrating. Having seen some of the threads on MN on the lines of 'My 12 year old accidentally dropped his book and it landed on a boy sitting on the other side of the classroom. He has been given detention. Where do I report the teacher for giving an excessive punishment?' I am amazed that anyone stays for more than a term or two.

There is a whole range of valid reasons why teachers are laeving in high numbers, but it really boils down to lack of money.

I worked in a support role in a comprehensive school in an area of high deprivation from 2000 to 2013. The school visibly benefitted from the funding increases by Labour from 1998 onwards in terms of increased support services, both internal and external. The post 2010 tory cuts to education spending rapidly reversed the level of support we could offer needy children. Cuts to local authorities have meant that LA provided non school services to children were cut, too. It's a bit of a perfect storm, really.

Freezing teachers and support staff pay for so long hasn't helped with retention either.

Am I right in thinking you're in Australia nanna?

DS teaches there and has been becoming increasingly disillusioned for the reasons you've listed in your OP.

I went into Nursing another very stressful career, I would not have been able to, non of us would, without the teachers guiding us through the learning experience, from Primary school throughout our informative years, onto to University, although much of that was deemed "self learning". Three of my family , one retired, one Deputy Head, one in training. The youngest member is loving her training and classroom experiences, Primary, and I wouldn't try to put them off. We need enthusiastic, dedicated teachers, as with Nursing, you don't go into it just for the money surely, well I didn't. I know they aren't either.

Poor behaviour of some children. Poor support from some parents and their current ambition to get a label for their child that they think will excuse the poor behaviour instead of supporting the teacher.

I began my teaching career in a boys’ grammar school. I think the main challenges were because I was a young female. I was not sorry when I had to leave to move away for my husband’s work. After a few years out, I then taught part-time in a girls’ grammar school, which I really enjoyed. Further moves resulted in five years teaching in five different comprehensive schools, after which I was determined to leave the profession. It was soul destroying. Admittedly this was in an area where there was much poverty, low expectations, and few resources.

I count myself fortunate to have found a job in an independent girls’ grammar, which I loved, and stayed over 20 years until retirement.
The private sector is not a doddle. Academic standards are high, requiring a huge amount of preparation and quality lessons, a lot of marking and often additional help for individual pupils. I gladly did all that rather than attempting to teach unmotivated badly behaved pupils. But the pressures were there- especially from parents, notably the nouveaux riches, who baldly stated. ‘We are paying you to get her A grades’.
In a way the management echoed those pressures, but on the whole were very supportive. Colleagues were lovely, well, 95% of them. The atmosphere in the school was one of mutual respect. I was sad to retire.
Although in many ways we conformed to norms in the curriculum, we were free from the constraints which arose at the whim of the latest Secretary of State. There was money for resources. The majority of parents were on our side, and the majority of pupils were hard-working - and competitive.

I am not surprised that many young teachers do not stay long in teaching, though the village primary my grandchildren attended was an exception.

When I was in school the head teacher begged my mother to allow me to enter the teaching profession. Of course that did not come off as it would have meant (in those days) my going to training college. And I was qute sure, even at that age, I did not want to teach children. Teaching then was regarded as a good solid profession along with being a doctor or solicitor. Most teachers were respected by parents. Thats how it should be.

Later I went briefly into further and then higher education. Even then there were a few spoiled little darlings seeking the "university experience" who thought their degree would be handed to them on a plate. In the 1990s there were de-motivated and over entitled students. Nowadays I read about how many of them never attend lectures (most of which are online anyway). Higher education is filled with tiresome wokery and I'm glad Im not an academic any more.

I would never have wanted to teach children. Many of them now are feral. So are their parents.

I agree with the posters who said that teaching requires a good shake up. We need to get back to showing respect for the authority figures in our society.