Why do Asylum Seekers cross the channel on small boats

Mollygo

Chestnut

M0nica asked which are the first professions you suggest we restrict. Doctors? dentists? IT staff? to which I replied that I wasn't suggesting we restrict any particular professions. More important to choose those we want and refuse those we don't want surely?

That’s what they do in Australia, together with assessing any criminal background and certain health problems before you are allowed a visa.

Their system is not perfect.

It is what we do in Britain as well.

Thatcher foresaw the chaos we are in now. She said “if the right honourable gentleman is suggesting that we ever get to a position where we cannot return illegal immigrants to their country of origin, then he is proposing international chaos”

I am also very calm by the way 🤣🤣🤣

But, on the other hand, I feel that you are wasting your time because some posters will simply not read or listen to factual statistical information which is provided on this thread.
What factual statistical information are you referring to DamaskRose that some posters haven't read?

Chestnut

Whitewavemark2

It is indisputable that immigration helps grow an economy, encourages innovation and brings in foreign investment.

It is also indisputable that there isn’t a single economy in the world that has not thrived without immigration.

Fine, but don't you think 1.22 million new arrivals last year is enough? We had half a million leaving (who can blame them?) which makes net migration in 2023 of 685,000. Yet you keep wanting more as if it's never enough.

Chestnut The 1.22 million is GROSS migration. NET (those coming in less those returnig to their countries of origin) is 685,000, just over half that figure.

Many of those coming in are students, we have some of the best universities in the world, Oxford has just been classed the No 1 world university. These students bring huge sums of revenue into this country and the vast majority return home after they have completed their degrees.

2024 was an exceppionally high year for immigration and figures are falling this year.

I suggest in future before you brandish statistics you make sure you fully verify them.

The link to the statistics I quote are from the authorative Migration Observatory, Based at the Centre on Migration, Policy and Society (COMPAS) at the University of Oxford, the Migration Observatory provides impartial, independent, authoritative, evidence-based analysis of data on migration and migrants in the UK, to inform media, public and policy debates, and to generate high quality research on international migration and public policy issues. A quote from their site.

Remember Oxford is the best university in the world and the link is migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/

M0nica if you read my post you'll see I said net migration was 685,000. I think this is why people get so frazzled, because they don't read posts properly. You have based a very long post on an error.

Mollygo

Chestnut

M0nica asked which are the first professions you suggest we restrict. Doctors? dentists? IT staff? to which I replied that I wasn't suggesting we restrict any particular professions. More important to choose those we want and refuse those we don't want surely?

That’s what they do in Australia, together with assessing any criminal background and certain health problems before you are allowed a visa.

Their system is not perfect.

Is anyone posting actually aware of our immigration system?

It is highly controlled, particularly with the additions the last government made, like the salary limit and restrictions on brining in dependents.

www.gov.uk/guidance/new-immigration-system-what-you-need-to-know

The number of people arriving by irregular means is small compared with those arriving by the regular channels. figures to March 2024, (discounting visitor visas) 1.5 million 'regular' visas, 38.5 thousand 'irregular' entrants.

The number of irregular arrivals are not sufficient to account for our problems with housing, health and education.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-march-2024/summary-of-latest-statistics

As others have said we have a similar system to other countries when allowing immigration. Nobody on this or any other discussion has said open the borders, allow free movement
The difference between the opposing groups seems straight forward. People seeking asylum are dismissed as “illegals” by some. Others, thankfully the majority see that families will pool their resources and do everything in their power to get to a safe European country
Many have colonial / empire links to the countries they aim for
It doesn’t matter though how often the facts are set out, the rhetoric and total disregard for other humans takes over

Thanks DamasRose

Yes, it does feel like banging one’s head against a brick wall a lot of the time but … what can you do🤷‍♀️

Casdon

Yes, and I believe somebody also posted this on that thread:

‘An estimated 40% of Australia is considered uninhabitable. That's because it's the second driest continent. 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England.’
krcgtv.com › features › bey...

Australia is currently facing environmental challenges much greater than we are in the northern hemisphere.

Statistics such as this one quoted 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England are meaningless. The population of Australia is approximately 26 million so 80% is approximately 20.8 million people. England has a population of nearly 58 million, so no comparison.
This is not to say we don’t need immigration, just that we are far more crowded than Australia.

LizzieDrip Then, in a later post you say “…please don't tell me we need more people to not provide for.” People coming here, legally, to work will be providing for themselves; indeed, contributing to the country’s economy via tax.
Sorry if that was confusing. I mean the country providing houses, schools, hospitals, GPs etc. for its citizens. Not the citizens providing for themselves with jobs. We can't provide those things for people already here, so we don't need even more people to 'not provide for' if you get my drift.

LizzieDrip

Thanks DamasRose

Yes, it does feel like banging one’s head against a brick wall a lot of the time but … what can you do🤷‍♀️

You're so right. 🙁

Rosie51

Casdon

Yes, and I believe somebody also posted this on that thread:

‘An estimated 40% of Australia is considered uninhabitable. That's because it's the second driest continent. 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England.’
krcgtv.com › features › bey...

Australia is currently facing environmental challenges much greater than we are in the northern hemisphere.

Statistics such as this one quoted 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England are meaningless. The population of Australia is approximately 26 million so 80% is approximately 20.8 million people. England has a population of nearly 58 million, so no comparison.
This is not to say we don’t need immigration, just that we are far more crowded than Australia.

The biggest difference between the UK and Australia Rosie51 is the infrastructure needed to enable people to live there. You can’t make a direct comparison and say it’s however many times bigger than the UK so it should take however many more migrants than the UK. It’s also already a country populated almost entirely by people who have migrated there from all over the world over the last 250 years.

Rosie51 Statistics such as this one quoted 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England are meaningless. The population of Australia is approximately 26 million so 80% is approximately 20.8 million people. England has a population of nearly 58 million, so no comparison. This is not to say we don’t need immigration, just that we are far more crowded than Australia.

Just to say, the UK population is not 58 million it's at least 67 million which is over 2.5 times more people than the whole of Australia.

London is about 9 million now and the whole of New Zealand is 5.1 million. So London has over 1.7 times more people than the whole of New Zealand.

The population of Norway, which, by the way, has an excellent record on immigration, is equivalent to London.
However, only a modest part of it's land mass is habitable. A great deal of it is too high, and impenetrable for services such as water, sewage, and power to reach.
Land is only part of the equation.

Chestnut - and your point is ?

Iam64 have you ever heard of something called population density? Overpopulation?

Have you heard of, or considered the reasons so many seek refuge?
I’m not suggesting Northern European countries can absorb everyone escaping risk of death. I’m suggesting the need for international co-operation in response to the horrors leading to the mass exodus
Our generation probably weren’t born when the holocaust was happening. But our parents told us and we saw film of parents putting their unaccompanied children on trains to escape to the uk.
The Daily Mail opposed the kinder transport
Manchester’s imperial war museum had an exhibition of photographs showing the families of some of those kindertransport, who would not have been here if we refused to help their ancestors. The Princess of Wales photographed some families. One family descended from a woman who was a role model for me and many others. She’d been put on a kindertransport in Vienna. Her parents and entire extended family died in the camps. Her family included doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, artists and more
Many who have the resources to seek a better life or simply to try and live are resilient with a lot to offer host countries

I meant the family descended from this one woman, in her 90’s when this exhibition was put together. Her children, grandchildren all contributing positively in my city area

Chestnut your email said Fine, but don't you think 1.22 million new arrivals last year is enough? with the highlighting on the 1.22 million, you did not highlight the net figure. 'Why not'

You then say We had half a million leaving (who can blame them?) Suggesting that these were all British people who were normally resident in this country and could not cope anymore, when in fact most of those half million are immigrants, mostly students who are returning home.

So often with misinformation, it is not what people say ( or write) but how they say (or write).

ronib

Iam64 have you ever heard of something called population density? Overpopulation?

Ronib population density has got nothing to do with over population. There are countries with low population densities because of the poor natural resources, weather conditions, or situation where a very low population density could also be over-population.

here is a link to a list of the most densely populated countries in the world. It is amazing just how many of the most densely populated countries in the world are remarkably wealthy and have no civil disturbances arising from 'over population'

The top 20 include Monaco, Singapore, Hong Kong, Bahrein, Bermuda, and Taiwan. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population_density

BevSec

Cossy I am far from arrogant. I consider I do not have the right to live and be supported in any other country either.

But you are “allowed” to live in another country, you are “allowed” to claim asylum.

However, we are extremely fortunate, through an accident of birth, to be living in a democracy where, within our fairly liberal laws, we are allowed to live as ourselves, free to express our views safely and not involved in wars within our own country.

There but for the grace of god…

Casdon

Rosie51

Casdon

Yes, and I believe somebody also posted this on that thread:

‘An estimated 40% of Australia is considered uninhabitable. That's because it's the second driest continent. 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England.’
krcgtv.com › features › bey...

Australia is currently facing environmental challenges much greater than we are in the northern hemisphere.

Statistics such as this one quoted 80% of Australians live in an area the size of England are meaningless. The population of Australia is approximately 26 million so 80% is approximately 20.8 million people. England has a population of nearly 58 million, so no comparison.
This is not to say we don’t need immigration, just that we are far more crowded than Australia.

The biggest difference between the UK and Australia Rosie51 is the infrastructure needed to enable people to live there. You can’t make a direct comparison and say it’s however many times bigger than the UK so it should take however many more migrants than the UK. It’s also already a country populated almost entirely by people who have migrated there from all over the world over the last 250 years.

I don’t believe I expressed any view on how many migrants Australia should take? You made the comparison with the size of England, I merely pointed out you were not comparing equal populations. I wouldn’t dream of telling any country how many migrants they should take. We need migrants, controlled immigration, which for the most part we have. Our refuge seekers are a very small proportion of our numbers of immigrants.

Monica thank you for your comment. It’s very muggy here tonight and I am not sure how to reply. Having been near Monaco a few years ago, I took fright and stayed on the bus to Menton. I don’t know how anyone copes living in Monaco. It doesn’t matter how rich the population is….. etc.

“ However, we are extremely fortunate,
through an accident of birth, to be
living in a democracy where, within
our fairly liberal laws, we are allowed to live as ourselves, free to express our views safely and not involved in wars within our own country.

There but for the grace of god…”

Hear, hear Cossy!

We still get boats coming across from Indonesia but we have a navy who assist in protecting our borders. People are no longer sent to off shore detention centres but the boats are turned back. If the people are ill they are cared for.