Keir Starmer aka Captain Flip Flop

I’m not bothered about pre-election statements being broken if they weren’t in the manifesto.
That’s the best excuse yet. Thanks
I was stating a fact based on my experience of fifty+ years. That is not an excuse.

This particular government knew some elements of what the black hole was, but not all. It’s all smoke and mirrors, as you woukd expect from both the major parties.
fullfact.org/economy/labour-government-blackhole-public-finances/

Poor "The HappyGardner" some of the comments totally uncalled for. The Tories on here put up with much worse at times. Now the LP is in power it's fair game, you can't have duel standards...

As for Captain Flip Flop... If anyone wants this stopped, suggest someone contact "X".
Regardless of BJ calling him that, it's stuck, and he does.

mazzie66

I only drop in in Gransnet now and again but reading through this thread, wow, what’s happened? The vitriol expressed by some is appalling and the ‘how dare you’ comment made my jaw drop!

I have great admiration for those of you Conservatives who are brave enough to stay the course in the face of such unoleasantness. Good luck to you, but it’s not for me. Over and out.

mazzie66. Don’t let a handful of nasty people bully you off here and I hope HappyGardener doesn’t either. PM me if you want!!

What a way to “welcome” a new member to the forum!

I too am shocked at how that little group who would die for Labour and Starmer and will not listen to anybody else on their views tried to bully her off. Absolutely disgusting behaviour.

Reminds me of a thread a month or so ago about people not daring to post because of the nasty comments they receive from this merry little band and you all know who you are! I had several PMs from people who said they no longer post because they are fed up with this childish behaviour.

I get loads of flak because my views don’t align with theirs but do you know what? It’s like water off a duck’s back. 🤣🤣They don’t scare or intimidate me and I will continue to say what I think, along with a few others who refuse to be silenced. 👏👏👏

Actually HappyGardener it’s already all over Facebook with some absolutely hilarious but honest comments about Starmer. It’s been doing the rounds since he made the announcement about WFPs. 😉

Goodness - wanna be in my gang?
There are all sorts of people on Gransnet mazzie, but the vast majority are not nasty, in gangs, or for that matter two faced, whichever side of the political divide they sit in. As long as it’s within the guidelines, you can post exactly what you like and defend your corner as fiercely as you want to.

How is posting in praise of the Conservatives giving an opinion, but posting in defence of the government become 'willing to die for Labour and Starmer' and 'bullying', 'threatening' or 'intimidating'?

This confrontational and divisive way of posting is getting out of hand, and the 'you know who you are' comment is borderline threatening.

x.com/actionbrexit/status/1821506730527781315?s=46&t=O5n-YYjDdRFzkV5vLpTIig

In this clip, Starmer is challenging Sunak to withdraw plans to withhold the WFS from pensioners to fill the £ 46billion black hole.

Are you still saying that Starmer did not know about the £46 billion black hole?

Strange that Starmer is now planning to do something we can see/hear him challenging Sunak not to do, to fill a black hole that he knew about when challenging Sunak, but conveniently didn’t know a couple of months later?

Our WFP was taken away after we moved to France. The reason given was that the winter temperature was not cold enough. In fact the powers that be included the temperatures of a French island somewhere and that took the average temperature above the notional limit (maybe in the West Indies). I remember at that time time that English residents in Spain were asking for the WFP to be paid to them because of the cost of their air con in summer.

FYI - for the last few days the temperature here has been around 100F and in the winter it can get to several degrees below freezing. Annoyingly we have frosts right through until mid May which cause untold damage to plants and impeded the growth of flowers on trees and shrubs.

Just saying!

Doodledog I certainly was not implying that you reported and managed to get GSM banned, because I don’t think you are that kind of poster at all. I simply don’t think you’re the reporting type (judging by your posts) but there are posters who report, otherwise we wouldn’t have so many deletions, and we do seem to have had a lot of deletions lately.
Apologies if you were offended, but I really didn’t mean you.

MissAdventure

Gnhq have pointed out that is they and nobody else who ban people.

They ban when posters make enough reports.
Actual posters can’t ban anyone, but they can repeatedly report someone presumably.

Twinnytwin, love it! Please do not go the happygardener, we need people who have the courage to post as you have.

That's ok, maddie. I certainly don't mind different points of view, and don't see the need for insults and divisions. I particularly dislike the double standards that we see time and again, when people are accused of bullying and ganging up simply for having a different opinion.

Casdon

"I think we’ll have to agree to disagree Baggs, because I just can’t see the justification to give the WFP to everybody. My personal preference would be to raise the personal allowance, and not pay WFP to anybody who has enough income to be required to pay tax. Conversely, at the moment, many of us pay 40% tax on part of our incomes, but still get WFP. That can’t be the best use of the government budgets."

An increase in the personal allowance by £1000 would theoretically cover the WFP. Unfortunately this wouldn't help those whose income is already below the PA

I'd assume gnhq can ban someone making repeated erroneous reports, maddy.

Doodledog

How is posting in praise of the Conservatives giving an opinion, but posting in defence of the government become 'willing to die for Labour and Starmer' and 'bullying', 'threatening' or 'intimidating'?

This confrontational and divisive way of posting is getting out of hand, and the 'you know who you are' comment is borderline threatening.

Yes it is.
But I don’t think how dare you is conducive to civilised debate.

Doodledog we sometimes have different views, but I respect your’s and I think you respect mine. I have never known you to be rude

Well that’s the problem Casdon. I do think the tax allowance should be raised, I really disagreed with the Conservatives not raising it in line with inflation, but unfortunately as you say, that wouldn’t help those pensioners on Pension Credit. My solution would be to raise Pension Credit so that more people can claim.

I don’t suppose any government, this or the last, wants advice from me though

I had to smile at the indignation voiced by some at the one name being attributed to Sir Kier Starmer! When I recall some of the names regularly assigned to Tory leaders and Ministers, especially Mrs May, Maybot, being the favourite jibe, (there were many more) which we Conservatives just had to put up with, getting so worked up about one rather inoffensive taunt does seem a tad more excessive.

maddyone

Well that’s the problem Casdon. I do think the tax allowance should be raised, I really disagreed with the Conservatives not raising it in line with inflation, but unfortunately as you say, that wouldn’t help those pensioners on Pension Credit. My solution would be to raise Pension Credit so that more people can claim.

If both those things can happen I think most people would have little to complain about, although whatever happens there is always a cohort just above or just below every cut-off point unfortunately.

Thank you Primrose53 and BevSec and others for your supportive messages. I’ve been to work for a couple of hours this afternoon, mulled things over in my head, caught up with comments on here and have decided I’m not going to leave GN just because my views are different to some of the more vocal posters. I’m entitled to my views just as they are entitled to theirs and I certainly don’t think there was anything wrong with my post! If this stirs up the hornets’ nest again, my apologies - I won’t be responding to any more posts on this subject.

Thank goodness you are staying thehappy gardener😘

Skydancer

I disagree with what KS has done re the heating allowance. My reasoning is that many pensioners are at home far more than those of working age. Personally, we can just about manage without the heating allowance but it certainly helped a lot not having to worry about the fuel bill especially as DH is on blood thinners and feels the cold badly. Also older people are slower to move around and get warm.

My reasoning is that many pensioners are at home far more than those of working age.

I think that's an important point.

And there will also be those pensioners who are ill or disabled to some extent, but not sufficiently to be eligible for benefits but who nevertheless cannot afford physically to live day to day in a home below a certain temperature.

Like your DH, my OH is disabled to the extent that he cannot move around to keep warm - he has even worn a cardigan this week - though I have to admit our house is made of stone so it doesn't hold the heat.

The country is not 'broke'. That is not how the economy works. Governments decide on what to spend and it's an ideological choice. The fiscal responsibility lies in not creating inflation.

I actually believe that Starmer is trying to look as 'tough' as the Tories on public spending because that is how he won over commerce and industry, investors, etc - and why so many Labour voters are disappointed in him.

But it should also be pointed out that the last government commissioned a consultation paper on public spending, and this - means testing of WFA - was one of the items for 'consideration'. I think it was going to happen sooner or later. But it should have happened later, in order to give those affected at least some time to budget for the money they are going to lose as I suspect quite a few might have already factored in the WFA in their budget.

Bad move.

BevSec

Thank goodness you are staying thehappy gardener😘

Ditto.

TheHappyGardener

Thank you Primrose53 and BevSec and others for your supportive messages. I’ve been to work for a couple of hours this afternoon, mulled things over in my head, caught up with comments on here and have decided I’m not going to leave GN just because my views are different to some of the more vocal posters. I’m entitled to my views just as they are entitled to theirs and I certainly don’t think there was anything wrong with my post! If this stirs up the hornets’ nest again, my apologies - I won’t be responding to any more posts on this subject.

Great news.
👏🏽👏🏽