Starmer's speech 27th Aug 24

GrannyGravy13

This PM is no different to any other, he makes promises he know he cannot keep…

Yes. That’s true.
I still find it strange that Starmer could argue that Sunak should not cancel the winter fuel payment that Sunak was planning to use to fill the black hole. Whereas now he thinks it’s okay to do exactly that, to Phil A black hole he says he didn’t know about because it’s his government doing it.

Oldfrill 👍🏻 ok

AGAA4

GrannyGravy13

AGAA4 he has already started on the pensioners, and he has not fulfilled his commitment to lower all our energy bills.

I think we should all be worried about the coming Budget…

I am worried GG 13.

I’m worried too, so is Mum and we voted for them!
All this rubbish about a black hole is typical politics speak, and of course this new government knew that after the pandemic and help for Ukraine our borrowing had gone up like crazy.
Am also not liking the cronyism that’s been going on, I thought Starmer wouldn’t have any truck with that, but it seems he has.
Blaming the tories for everything won’t wash, if this government had been in power during the pandemic and help for Ukraine they’d have the same or similar debts, whatever they choose to say.
Paying off the unions by big salary increases for public sector workers is another thing and there’ll now be threats of strikes from so many others.
All round, it’s not a great start.

AGAA4

Starmer has said the budget will be painful but it will effect those with broad shoulders more.
He has also cancelled Sunak's helicopter that he spent thousands on flying more than any other PM.
I will wait to see who will feel the pinch after the budget.

Thousands? His helicopter was £40m wasted of govt (tax payers) money!

Doodledog

I don't think for a minute that the LP is out to get pensioners. Maybe they don't see pensioners as a protected group, though. The Tories did, as they got voted from pensioners, but realistically, there is no reason why subsidies should be given to one group and not others with the same income.

The pension should rise, as should benefits for those who can't work, and IMO those who could work but choose not to should also have to pay into the system (with safeguard in place). As things are, there are too few contributors for the number of recipients of all ages. The SP in itself is not enough to live on, which is not right, but as long as working age people can opt out of making financial contributions to society there will not be enough to increase it.

Until that happens, those (of all ages) with savings and incomes will have to carry the burden. It's not fair, but means-testing isn't fair. The trouble is that the alternative is to have people going cold and hungry if they haven't provided for themselves, and who wants to see that?

Everyone should be able to pay in, so wages need to rise so that people can survive with enough left over to pay taxes, even if they are relatively low. Minimum wage is not enough to live on either as rents are so high, so wages need to rise, and rents need to be controlled. I hope this is something that is in the budget. Yes, it will mean that those who have paid low wages and those who charge high rents will lose out, but there is no reason why anyone should get rich because taxpayers money subsidises their profits.

Ensuring that everyone contributes will mean that everyone has a stake in society, which might improve morale and cut down on the sort of disaffection that led to the riots.

My hope is that this is the sort of thing that Starmer is planning. Not by taxing working people more, but ensuring that they are not carrying too much of the burden of the welfare state. With that in place, there should be enough to pay a decent pension so that pensioners don't need extra payments.

I’m so disappointed that the tax thresholds in terms of personal allowances has remained frozen.

Raising this would help both pensioners and those on low incomes.

I too voted for the LP. I am also worried, I’m worried that they won’t move quickly enough and resolve issues quickly, and that this will lead to even more discontent.

I’m still in wait and see mode, it’s still early days, but in common with many others not the greatest start!

If everyone is worried, it's preferable to just one or two sections of society being worried, and bearing the brunt of the financial repercussions.

Everyone isn’t worried tho.

Everyone on gransnet seems to be.

It was one of the longest threads I've seen, toilet brushes aside.

When someone makes a speech which implies its going to take a generation to get things back on track then Im tempted to ask whats in it for someone my age then?

Im unlikely to be here in 10 years time and that may well be fthe case for some of you. You might answer "well I want a secure future for my grandchildren". Being childfree I dont have that incentive. Ive already paid far more than my share to subsidise other peoples childbearing choices. So this corrupt bunch of shysters are not getting any more of my taxes.

In what way have you paid more than your share, biglouis? I didn’t think it was possible to pay more tax than you owe, which is ‘your share’, based on your earnings. We all subsidise the next generation, by paying for their healthcare and education until they come of age and start paying for the next one and the one that is then getting older. Presumably your time at university was paid for, along with your birth and any other healthcare you have needed?

Your pension contributions (and salary) as a public sector employee were effectively subsidised by the taxpayer too, and your state pension is being paid for by today’s workers. That’s how the system works. Not everyone pays ‘their share’, but as far as I know nobody pays more than their share either.

In the Scottish leaders debate the SNP leader JohnSwinney told Anas Sarwar about the so called black hole……..Sarwar denied it saying,read my.ips there is NO black hole and will be NO austerity!, Why on earth did ANY Scot vot for the Scottish branch office of the WM liebour party .Independence is a necessity to get us away from the crooks liars and thieves in the so-called Mother of Parliaments.300+Years of pillage and theft of our resources England needs to stand on its own two feet

It would appear approximately 70% of voters in Scotland didn't agree with the SNP, and demonstrated that by voting for other parties.
Is that just England or do Wales and NI have to find their feet too? Amazing that "some posters" only ever refer to Scotland and England despite the UK comprising 4 nations, how very dismissive of the other two!!

Where are the 900,000 pensioners who are entitled to pension credit but aren't claiming it ? Why aren't they claiming ?

paddyann54

In the Scottish leaders debate the SNP leader JohnSwinney told Anas Sarwar about the so called black hole……..Sarwar denied it saying,read my.ips there is NO black hole and will be NO austerity!, Why on earth did ANY Scot vot for the Scottish branch office of the WM liebour party .Independence is a necessity to get us away from the crooks liars and thieves in the so-called Mother of Parliaments.300+Years of pillage and theft of our resources England needs to stand on its own two feet

The SNP no longer hold a majority in Holyrood and their Westminster contingent were decimated at the GE. A little introspection may serve SNP diehards well rather than the same old "liebour" "Westminster" and "Englandshire" narrative which has helped get Scotland to the sorry state it's in today.

Greyisnotmycolour

Where are the 900,000 pensioners who are entitled to pension credit but aren't claiming it ? Why aren't they claiming ?

It's really sad isnt it that they dont. I just read that AgeUK will actually fill the forms in for you on the phone if anyone knows anyone.
"0800 99 1234
call the Pension Credit claim line on 0800 99 1234 and they can fill in the application for you over the phone (lines are open Monday to Friday, 8am-6pm)"

The function os a "shadow" government is to know what the government of the day is doing. So how come Starmer and his cronies have only just DISCOVERED this so called black hole?

Either they have been lying down on the job or are simply lying (as all politicos are wont to do). The government acting against your economic well-being by having this obsession with balancing the books and claiming that otherwise there's a black hole in government funding.

There is no black hole.

There are just choices to be made about the right thing to do at the right timeThere are other ways of raising money than taxation.

biglouis

The function os a "shadow" government is to know what the government of the day is doing. So how come Starmer and his cronies have only just DISCOVERED this so called black hole?

Either they have been lying down on the job or are simply lying (as all politicos are wont to do). The government acting against your economic well-being by having this obsession with balancing the books and claiming that otherwise there's a black hole in government funding.

There is no black hole.

There are just choices to be made about the right thing to do at the right timeThere are other ways of raising money than taxation.

Back when the Tories took over from the Blair/Brown government there was a “Black Hole” it was a feature of the Tory campaign, after the 2008 crash it was no real surprise.

With the instability caused by Brexit and the extra spending due to Covid and Ukraine it was common knowledge finances were very tight. The Tories engineered it that way with giveaways, paid for in the future, in the last couple of budgets to try to get votes.

Reeves says it’s more than expected, that’s just a prelude, as is WFA, preparing voters for the increase in taxes and tightening of services and benefits available. Various increases in taxes have been speculated on, amongst them are:-

Council Tax abolished and replaced with a 0.5% of house value Domestic Property Tax, this will likely reduce lower value property tax but greatly increased higher value property tax. A Wealth Tax by any other name.

Capital Gains Tax levied at marginal Income Tax rate, that’s up to 45%, a big earner estimated to net £20 billion/yr.

Changes in Inheritance Tax, rate remains the same the allowances are going to be more restricted.

It’s a long time until budget day but its clear above average income or wealth are going to be hit hard, also pensioners are not going to be immune from benefit reductions.

Where are the 900,000 pensioners who are entitled to pension credit but aren't claiming it ? Why aren't they claiming?

Possibly because not everyone likes to live off the state and some of the 900,000 pensioners prefer to manage on their income and savings.

People in receipt of a top up that they are justly entitled to are not “living off the state”.

The fear of being judged in this way is one factor that stops people claiming.

I raise you are saying your post is speculation, David, but even so it is very vague. I'm no expert when it comes to tax, but I'd understand your post better if I knew the answers to these questions:

What is 'average income or wealth'? Obviously a mean average is deceptive, so median or mode would be more useful.

Why should pensioners be immune from things that impact on families and younger people? Isn't it fairer to have a baseline for things like personal tax allowance that applies across the board?

Is there likely to be a comprehensive revaluing of properties in order to impose a value-based 'Domestic Property Tax'? If so, won't that cost more than it brings in? Would there be automatic CT rebates for those who have paid for years based on bands that have overvalued their homes?

Why is CGT unfair if income tax is not? People are taxed on income they've worked for, so are contributing both the tax and the fruits of their labours (in the form of goods or services) so why should gains in capital (ie money based on doing nothing) not be taxed at Income Tax rate?

What are the allowances that will be restricted when it comes to Inheritance Tax? Is there a reason why there shouldn't simply be a figure above which inheritance tax is paid? It seems to me that most taxation is unnecessarily complicated, and a simplified system (ie with no allowances) would both prevent fraud and save money for HMRC.

David49

In the last few weeks Starmer has axed WFA, slashed MPs expenses, cancelled the Helicopter trips and promised a tough budget stopping the previous waste.

He’s my kind of PM, if I have to pay tax I want it spent properly not gifted to those who already have enough

Agree with this plus the riots were quickly dealt with. He said they would
experience the full force of the law and this is what has happened..

I think he handled the riots very well.

I am waiting to hear the budget before deciding whether I like it or not. Has a date been set, do we know?

We all knew things were bad and that’s why the Conservatives didn’t win the election. It’s been dreadful, watching our public services deteriorate and a government doing nothing to improve things.
The last government could and should have settled the doctors pay dispute. The same with other public services, where the pay review board made recommendations that should have been met.
I’d have voted Labour if they’d said taxes on high earners would increase. I’d like to see the basic pension increase, with posters like myself with a decent private pension paying tax.

I see no reason to disbelieve Starmer when he says things are even worse than anticipated. We only need to look around us to see the evidence. He’s also correct to identify societal issues. I still feel relieved we seem to have grown ups in charge, who actually take their work seriously

I'd aaaume that pensioners who prefer not to "live off the state", and choose not to claim benefits must be well off enough not to.

I wouldn't freeze (which is what people are saying) sign petitions, knowing full well I'm not doing my part in looking after my own welfare.

Let's face it - you're worth it, so claim if you need to.