Starmer's speech 27th Aug 24

The Telegraph is allegedly reporting that pensioners living abroad will continue to get the WFA, regardless of income

Really?!

Oh that's bad. If true.

Smileless2012

If he's lying about the cancellation of the helicopter contract, how are we supposed to believe that he didn't know about the "black hole"?

He’s not lying about the contract, it was meant to end and Sunak extended it.

GrannyGravy13

The Telegraph is allegedly reporting that pensioners living abroad will continue to get the WFA, regardless of income

This is taken directly from the Gov.UK website, why people just accept “click bait” headlines from newspapers always amazes me!

“If you live abroad

Eligibility rules if you live abroad are changing for winter 2024. Updated guidance will be published in September 2024.

These have been the rules up to that point:-

If you do not live in the UK, you’re only eligible for the Winter Fuel Payment if:

you moved to an eligible country before 1 January 2021
you were born before 23 September 1958
you have a genuine and sufficient link to the UK - this can include having lived or worked in the UK, and having family in the UK
Eligible countries
Austria
Belgium
Bulgaria
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
Germany
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Sweden
Switzerland”

Why would he lie about the contract? Something like that is provable, and it has been shown that it was the LP who cancelled the extension.

I'm sure they wonder why they bother, sometimes. People are so unable to see beyond what they want to believe, regardless of the truth.

I agree Doodledog, people fretting about a budget that hasn't been made yet. I am preparing myself for a bit of hardship before things get better- isn't that what Brexiteers are always saying. Well, here it comes folks!

Starmer knew about a black hole.
You can see him challenging Sunak about withdrawing the WFA to fill the black hole.
The same black hole he’s withdrawing the WFA to fill now he’s in power.

Yes cossy have just answered the same on another thread on WFA abroad, as you say the government states clearly

Updated guidance will be published in September 2024

“I raise you are saying your post is speculation, David, but even so it is very vague. I'm no expert when it comes to tax, but I'd understand your post better if I knew the answers to these questions:”

There is a lot of wealth that is sitting idle and not taxed, if I were chancellor these are the areas that I would target for increases, exactly where they “choose” and what thresholds and allowances are allowed makes a big difference to the marginal taxpayer. There is a lot of IHT avoided using business allowances and gifting it’s highly likely they will be restricted BUT if value of assets falls there will be no gain, so that is a double edged sword.

I would regard £50k + as a high income and £500k plus as high wealth, IF there is a Council Tax at 0.5% £500k would be fairly neutral, it would hit £2m homes hard

Others are welcome to agree or disagree with my opinions and if they would suggest alternatives I will comment on them

keepingquiet

I agree Doodledog, people fretting about a budget that hasn't been made yet. I am preparing myself for a bit of hardship before things get better- isn't that what Brexiteers are always saying. Well, here it comes folks!

Sometimes I just despair, the Telegraph headlines almost every day since the election have “rubbished” and “smeared” the LP since they won the election.

People have such short memories!

Those proven to have consistently lied are those in power prior to the election.

Right from Johnson to Sunak!

I don’t believe the LP would be cutting eligibility to WFA if it wasn’t 100% necessary.

I notice no-one has noted the new that RR is considering continuing the Local Council grants this winter for those in the most need.

We are in a big fat mess in this country and it will be a tough few years (or longer).

Iam64

We all knew things were bad and that’s why the Conservatives didn’t win the election. It’s been dreadful, watching our public services deteriorate and a government doing nothing to improve things.
The last government could and should have settled the doctors pay dispute. The same with other public services, where the pay review board made recommendations that should have been met.
I’d have voted Labour if they’d said taxes on high earners would increase. I’d like to see the basic pension increase, with posters like myself with a decent private pension paying tax.

I see no reason to disbelieve Starmer when he says things are even worse than anticipated. We only need to look around us to see the evidence. He’s also correct to identify societal issues. I still feel relieved we seem to have grown ups in charge, who actually take their work seriously

All of the above. Plus, does anyone in their wildest, most fanciful of dreams honestly think that the Tories would not have cut winter fuel payments, raised taxes etc etc had they won? The country was crumbling beneath our feet for heaven sake. They knew they didn't stand a cat in hell's chance of winning the election and no doubt they breathed a heavy sigh of relief. Sorting out the mess and decay would become another party's headache, thus giving the Tories time to regroup and return when someone else had done all the hard work.

Apart from all of that, why is it "absolutely necessary" and generally accepted when the Tories announce austerity measures (which is every time they're in power) and yet from any other political party it is the work of the Devil himself? Interesting.

"I would regard £50k plus as a high income" Not here in the south east, where rents are extremely high due to dire shortages and unless a double income couple that wouldn't go far as to borrowing much to buy. Rail travel expensive for commutes. Didn't that Labour leader who died suddenly, John Smith I believe, make such an out of touch comment at the time about people earning over a certain figure.

It’s going to be a very long five years.

Today Starmer is starting a process to make trade easier with Europe for UK businesses.

GrannyGravy13

The Telegraph is allegedly reporting that pensioners living abroad will continue to get the WFA, regardless of income

The Telegraph article’s behind a paywall.

MSN news is also saying that the cuts will not affect 36,000 retirees who were living in 23 countries across Europe, including Germany, Ireland, Italy, Belgium and the Netherlands (but not France or Spain) before 2021, and who will be able to carry on claiming the allowance up until April next year.

According to the article, they are still eligible for the allowance this year because their access to social security payments was written into the Brexit withdrawal agreement, and the entitlement is due for review in April 2025.

So it seems that the situation is completely out of Starmer’s control, and not of his choosing.

Good points Flappergirl

Mollygo

Starmer knew about a black hole.
You can see him challenging Sunak about withdrawing the WFA to fill the black hole.
The same black hole he’s withdrawing the WFA to fill now he’s in power.

We all knew there was a black hole, what the LP are claiming is some of that was “hidden” so LP were not aware of it all.

Whether this is true or not I don’t know.

Oreo

AGAA4

GrannyGravy13

AGAA4 he has already started on the pensioners, and he has not fulfilled his commitment to lower all our energy bills.

I think we should all be worried about the coming Budget…

I am worried GG 13.

I’m worried too, so is Mum and we voted for them!
All this rubbish about a black hole is typical politics speak, and of course this new government knew that after the pandemic and help for Ukraine our borrowing had gone up like crazy.
Am also not liking the cronyism that’s been going on, I thought Starmer wouldn’t have any truck with that, but it seems he has.
Blaming the tories for everything won’t wash, if this government had been in power during the pandemic and help for Ukraine they’d have the same or similar debts, whatever they choose to say.
Paying off the unions by big salary increases for public sector workers is another thing and there’ll now be threats of strikes from so many others.
All round, it’s not a great start.

I pretty much agree with you Oreo, and whilst I think the last government were mired up to their eyeballs in chumocracy, that I don't deny, particularly as regards to handing out useless contracts for billions wasted during the pandemic and the money never recouped.. Nevertheless, I still feel too often the cost of what was necessary to weather that time the Ukraine war is not factored in enough. If Labour had been in power during that crisis they too would have added massively to our national debt, possibly more I think they may have favoured a longer lock down. In any case there was an inevitability in dealing with something so unprecedented that the costs would be enormous. All countries have run up debts because of it and have made their mistakes. Who knows what contracts Labour would have handed out. All the talk of cleaning up politics prior to their taking office, well I'll believe that when I see it, already we see a certain amount of cronyism emerging and that was certainly prevalent during the Blair years. It's politics, that's the nature of the beast, both the major parties are the two wings of the same bird..

Apart from all of that, why is it "absolutely necessary" and generally accepted when the Tories announce austerity measures (which is every time they're in power) and yet from any other political party it is the work of the Devil himself? Interesting.

Was it generally accepted?
That’s a rather sweeping statement. It’s very much like people putting up with whatever is foisted on them by the Labour Party.
I wouldn’t have said it was the work of the devil - though that’s a nice dramatic statement from you. 👏👏
I just find it strange that anyone including me, who condemned austerity under the CP is expected to accept it under a different guise from the LP.
In the same way as removing the WFA was wrong according to Starmer if the CP was doing it, but right if he’s doing it.

I don’t know if anyone else is out out by the endless stream of rhetoric coming out of Downing Street? A friend pointed out that Putin employs a similar tactic in Russia so the ordinary person turns away and disengages from politics. I think it’s probably better to stay engaged than not, for the time being anyway. Although my DH is muttering about the Bolsheviks and the aristocracy….

Put out

Cossy: I don’t believe the LP would be cutting eligibility to WFA if it wasn’t 100% necessary.

Cutting WFA is estimated to save £1.5bn but once those eligible (but haven't claimed before) start to get their Pension Credit payments it'll be a great deal less. His inflation-busting pay increases of more than £10bn to unions shows where his priorities lie.
Those whose income is low enough to get Pension Credit and others who are just above that, are poor.
There's been no opportunity to plan for the loss of WFA this year and many will suffer to pay the extra energy costs.
It's a disgrace and I, and many others, are very frightened as to what this government is planning to hit us with.

Well yes Mollygo, austerity is generally accepted under the Tories. Certainly judging by the amount of times they get elected to government. Under Labour, austerity is packaged as the thin edge of communism or hypocrisy or incompetence and a whole raft of similarly hysterical announcements. Under the Tories, austerity is packaged as sensible, a well thought out long term plan and the Government doing their best to balance the books for the good of the nation. We've all got to be good citizens and suck it up. I'm not promoting or denigrating either party for the purposes of this conversation but I've lived long enough to know that what I'm saying is always the case.

flappergirl well interesting comment but the Labour Party has been around long enough to pay advisors/consultants heaps of money to work on putting a message across. Perhaps they have and this is the result - social unrest and general depression. What a mess and we have not even had the budget yet.