Conservatives Party Leadership Race

fancythat you got it in one!

I think Reform will wither myself, and the Tories will get their act together over the next few years. They still have some decent MPs, albeit not an obvious leader so far, and they will regroup and become an effective opposition.
I also think Labour will mitigate the migration issue over time, albeit it will probably require the introduction of ID cards at some point. Legal migration is already reducing thanks to the tougher entry requirements. At least cooperation with Europe is already improving, because without that we are going nowhere on this issue. I have faith in Yvette Cooper, I think she’s the right woman for the job. Just call me Pollyanna.

-I can’t get over Jenrick removing that mural for children and I think Badenoch is just plain nasty.-
Maybe70 that's exactly what I think. Tugendhat seems the best of the bunch to me, tho that's not a very high bar..

A pity that this thread seems to have got derailed into immigration on which there are several posts already.

fancythat

Wyllow3

I'm partly responsible, but I hope this isn't going to turn into yet another immigration thread.

Not that one isn't relevant if people want it, but that the O/P has opened a topic that matters a great deal in the long run. What kind of Conservative Party we get in parliament.

Yes, you did start it.

I may start a thread on the topic at some point.
But need to read up.
And read up other threads, if there are some, on the matter.

To my mind, assuming Farage stays the course, if the tories do nothing about Reform, they will be squeezed until they barely matter.
And yes, because of the immigration topic.

But what exactly is the "immigration topic"?

The country needs the vast majority of immigrants we have. The number of "irregular immigrants" is a very small percentage of the population.

There are much more pressing issues for any government.

winterwhite

-I can’t get over Jenrick removing that mural for children and I think Badenoch is just plain nasty.-
Maybe70 that's exactly what I think. Tugendhat seems the best of the bunch to me, tho that's not a very high bar..

A pity that this thread seems to have got derailed into immigration on which there are several posts already.

I expect the derailment was deliberate.

I think it will be James Ckeverly who wins the leadership contest, middle ground.

The winner gets elected by party members not MPs, previously they would have reelected Johnson given the chance. I really do not see a centrist being chosen, that would be Starmer by any other name.

I do. They have to unite the party, and a right wing leader isn’t going to do that, particularly with the current cohort of MPs.

I agree with you Growstuff.
I think Tom made a very good speech when he first apologised

Out of the five my preference is Tugendhat, not sure he will be in the final two.

My prediction is James Cleverly.

I’m with you on Tom Tugendhat, I like him. I hope your wrong about James Cleverly,

Iam64

I’m with you on Tom Tugendhat, I like him. I hope your wrong about James Cleverly,

So do I

But he says he would be happy to leave the ECHR.

MayBee70

But he says he would be happy to leave the ECHR.

And your point is?

I thought he was better than that. I felt he was saying something to get votes, not something that he truly believed in. Do you think it’s ok to leave the ECHR?

MayBee70

I thought he was better than that. I felt he was saying something to get votes, not something that he truly believed in. Do you think it’s ok to leave the ECHR?

Leaving the European convention on human rights would be the thin end of the wedge. Those who want to get rid of it want to be able to bend the rules with regard to how they treat people. Of course many assume it will just be with regard to migrants, meaning inhumane methods for dealing with them can go ahead unimpeded, but is short sighted to believe it stops there. First they came for the migrants and we said nothing, then they came for low paid workers and we said nothing, then they came for us.
Is ever thus.

Precisely…

I have just had a quick google on TT’s stance on the ECHR.

He is concerned that on multiple occasions when the UK has tried to deport foreign criminals (including murderers and rapists) that the Government of the day has been prevented by human rights lawyers using the ECHR.

Surely we have enough of our home grown criminals without being forced to let foreign criminals remain here?

So it’s worth losing protection for ourselves as long as it means we can get rid of a few more immigrants? The ECHR protects our rights, too.

GrannyGravy13

I have just had a quick google on TT’s stance on the ECHR.

He is concerned that on multiple occasions when the UK has tried to deport foreign criminals (including murderers and rapists) that the Government of the day has been prevented by human rights lawyers using the ECHR.

Surely we have enough of our home grown criminals without being forced to let foreign criminals remain here?

Seems strange to me that Germany can, and does go ahead with deporting foreign criminals and failed asylum seekers, and back to Afghanistan, 28 in the last few days.
Their law states any foreigner committing crimes will be, not may be, deported after their sentence has been served, if convicted, their right to stay or residence permit is rescinded.
Instead, Labour will let foreign crimmies loose, to walk our streets,possibly commit further outrages.
Obviously no left wing lawyers stopping German crims being sent back from whence they came.

Ok I do nit agree with leaving the ECHR.
The point is that any country can deport people.

Labour are looking at sending our prisoners to Estonia for the duration of their sentences, one of their MP’s (Dame Angela Eagle) did not deny this whilst being interviewed on the press round this morning.

I wonder how this will go down within the party?

Oops Estonian Prisons

Freya5

GrannyGravy13

I have just had a quick google on TT’s stance on the ECHR.

He is concerned that on multiple occasions when the UK has tried to deport foreign criminals (including murderers and rapists) that the Government of the day has been prevented by human rights lawyers using the ECHR.

Surely we have enough of our home grown criminals without being forced to let foreign criminals remain here?

Seems strange to me that Germany can, and does go ahead with deporting foreign criminals and failed asylum seekers, and back to Afghanistan, 28 in the last few days.
Their law states any foreigner committing crimes will be, not may be, deported after their sentence has been served, if convicted, their right to stay or residence permit is rescinded.
Instead, Labour will let foreign crimmies loose, to walk our streets,possibly commit further outrages.
Obviously no left wing lawyers stopping German crims being sent back from whence they came.

Which surely shows that it's not the ECHR which is preventing deportation.

Nobody knows what the future holds. The ECHR gives all of us a level of protection from our own government.

If you look at UK cases involving the ECHR, it's quite clear that the UK also deports people despite ECHR involvement.

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8049/CBP-8049.pdf

Sending prisoners to another European country may be the only short term solution available, I know the last government were already looking into it, and that other countries do it already. It’s not ideal by any means, but it seems like Hobson’s choice to me.