So where will they go?

Mollygo

^How is it Starmer's responsibility, when the previous government had already announced it was going to release some prisoners early and it had 14 years to build new prisons?^

Because he’s done it.
We can blame the previous government for lots of things but Starmer did it knowing that the facilities are not in place to deal with the mass exit.

He also knew that the previous government had been planning to release prisoners early.

So if he knew that fact, he must also have known how bad the economy was, no need for the faux outrage.

escaped

So if he knew that fact, he must also have known how bad the economy was, no need for the faux outrage.

The faux outraged is all part of KS’s plan to disregard his election promises of

No rises in tax, VAT or NI

ronib

Casdon surely Starmer was using prison sentences as a blunt instrument to stop rioters? Without thinking it through?

Some were repeat offenders and and had been imprisoned previously, so obviously prison did not work for them.

Others were first time offenders so would they normally have been sentenced to prison or given an alternative sentence? It would be interesting to know.

Letting so many prisoners out on licence does smack of desperation and the need to hold these rioters up as an example to others.

It was dreadful to see police and emergency services attacked. Hotels set alight with people, including staff inside. Arson carries a potential life sentence. The riots had to be stopped and rioters punished.
The prisons were over crowded/. The probation service understaffed with less experienced staff than needed.
I’m certain Starmer’s government along with police and judiciary did ‘think it through’ before deciding its response.

ronib

Is anyone else getting the impression of a leader who can’t think through on consequences?

You do realise that the Tory government started this initiative of early release in 2023 and it was done because they hadn’t invested in prisons? Seven prisons were closed down under the Tory government and 10700 places lost, this is on them.

Ism64 not enough was done immediately after the Southport murders to prevent misinformation about the killings.

Jane43

ronib

Is anyone else getting the impression of a leader who can’t think through on consequences?

You do realise that the Tory government started this initiative of early release in 2023 and it was done because they hadn’t invested in prisons? Seven prisons were closed down under the Tory government and 10700 places lost, this is on them.

You missed 2 new prisons built by the Tories in the last 7 years, Jane, HMP Berwyn in Wrexham and Fosse Way both with 2000 capacity.

Also £4 billion allocated in 2020 to build 5 or 6 new prisons… building slow so won’t be ready in 2025 as planned. Plus legislation to send prisoners abroad was pulled as the election was called.

ronib

Ism64 not enough was done immediately after the Southport murders to prevent misinformation about the killings.

Exactly!

GrannyGravy13

ronib

Ism64 not enough was done immediately after the Southport murders to prevent misinformation about the killings.

Exactly!

What could have been done? As it stands, KS is accused of crushing free speech . And all he did was use laws already on the statute. The rioting started within a couple of days (dashing out now, so can't check the timeline), so I don't know what could have stopped it, given that the agitators were targeting members of the public for incitement, rather than those in terrorist cells.

The rioting started the same day as the Southport murders DD. It was being planned all afternoon on social media networks as soon as the dreadful fake news came out. The police released the information about who the killer was within a few hours. They had to be responsible and careful about releasing such information (ie protecting the family).
Blame the rioters, not the police - how were they to know, they followed best procedure.

Doodledog

GrannyGravy13

ronib

Ism64 not enough was done immediately after the Southport murders to prevent misinformation about the killings.

Exactly!

What could have been done? As it stands, KS is accused of crushing free speech . And all he did was use laws already on the statute. The rioting started within a couple of days (dashing out now, so can't check the timeline), so I don't know what could have stopped it, given that the agitators were targeting members of the public for incitement, rather than those in terrorist cells.

The Police and locals knew immediately who the murderer was.

They could have (in my opinion definitely should have) put out a statement or better held a press conference that evening.

They then could have given details that the perpetrator was born in the U.K., and released his name immediately (as they did a week later)

This would have prevented all the online speculation and misinformation, therefore preventing the riots.

Thanks Wyllow. I knew it was quick, but hadn’t realised it was that quick!

ronib, what do you think could have been done? It’s not as though the murders were part of a plot that the secret services could have known about.

For those GN's who recall that day, the original misinformation was also reported in GN and commented on without due care as to source.

Doodledog I think GG13 has explained very clearly - offer this poster a place in government? The real government is clueless.

The police followed due procedure that day, they were dealing with horrific killings and a crushed community. No one except those planing the riots as soon as the fake news was released expected the appalling result. Leave blame where it was due.

Give the police, Starmer and no doubt secret services credit for acting quickly that week, and for the communities left behind after the riots who did work together to repair the damage

Wyllow3

The rioting started the same day as the Southport murders DD. It was being planned all afternoon on social media networks as soon as the dreadful fake news came out. The police released the information about who the killer was within a few hours. They had to be responsible and careful about releasing such information (ie protecting the family).
Blame the rioters, not the police - how were they to know, they followed best procedure.

The little girls were brutally murdered on 29th July, the first riot was on the evening of 30th July.

The Police had 24 hours to take the heat out of the situation, they chose not to. They could have (should have) refuted the online rumours from the get go.

The Police monitor social media, particularly individuals of interest. If I was getting tweets on my closed X account I am in no doubt that they were aware of them immediately.

(Source Guardian & Google)

Timeline noted, but the trouble began when the fake news was released on the 30th.

I cant understand why you are seeking to blame the police not those rioting. I do recall the outpouring of thanks here on GN thanking the police as the riots were contained.

How were the police to know that a fake news posting of incredible danger to us all was going to be posted on the 30th?

(I'm sure you are right about certain SM accounts being monitored now, but at that time?)

Wyllow3

Timeline noted, but the trouble began when the fake news was released on the 30th.

I cant understand why you are seeking to blame the police not those rioting. I do recall the outpouring of thanks here on GN thanking the police as the riots were contained.

How were the police to know that a fake news posting of incredible danger to us all was going to be posted on the 30th?

(I'm sure you are right about certain SM accounts being monitored now, but at that time?)

I totally blame the instigators of the riots and those who rioted, always have and always will.

This does not stop me from feeling that the police could have stopped the instigators in their tracks by holding a press conference with the correct information, thereby taking the wind out of the instigators/agitators sails

Police forces have dedicated cyber units they will and do monitor individuals of interest including the likes of Tommy Robinson (Yaxley Lennon).

TBH I genuinely don't know if it would have stopped the riots, GG13.

I certainly think that what you say, quick release of information, will be followed in future, as soon as it is safe to do so.

At the time, there was no apparent need before the fake news was released on who the killer really was, and after it was released the timescale was very tight indeed.

Correct information didn't stop further riots. The same hatred and incitement was being pumped out on SM.

I am sure that more people are being monitored now by cyber units as a result of the riots however not just the likes of Robinson.

I think it is unfair to blame the police, inferring that the riots could have been stopped. How? By making a nationwide statement on the news? Many people, especially young people don't watch tv, and would likely spin it as 'The State' giving out misinformation. I note that many of those on here critical if the police and/or Starmer's handling of the riots, were the same people who moaned about lefty lawyers and a Labour govt who would be soft on crime.

Hatred of immigrants has been smouldering for a long time. Even if the police had issued a statement the riot leaders had an excuse to stir people up which is what they did.

They then could have given details that the perpetrator was born in the U.K., and released his name immediately (as they did a week later

Perhaps the powers that be, underestimated the racist thuggery that was waiting to unleash its stupidity.
It was very frightening for a few days. It hasn't gone anywhere. I'm glad KS knew his way around the system and took decisive action.
Many on here clearly hate Labour and seek out any opportunity to have a go. I think he handled the riots well.

eggplant I do not hate Labour.

I am a disillusioned Conservative though.

I have no faith in politics or politicians whilst they perpetuate the handbag/household budget myth.

Commenting on the Government or the Police’s behaviour is not having a go it is purely giving our opinions.

The Police were faced with horrific circumstances, both at the dance school and the riots.