How about this to make the immigration problem fairer?

It was reported a few days ago by mainstream news that some migrants had died whilst trying to cross the Channel, and that one child was was trampled to death by other migrants. I can’t remember any other details. I assume the child was quite small. I also assume that if the boat was in difficulties that people would panic and that’s probably how this sad event occurred.

Yes, this might be n idea for AS, but they only account for a small proportion of migrants to this country.

I think, I may be wrong, that what is going on behind all this obsession with AS is really a concern about migration, and I think many people instinctively see any migrant as having come here illegally.

The vast majority of migrants come here legally to fill labour gaps in our eeonomy, especially to staff the NHS and Care sector. Many non-white families have been here for generations and are as British as I am - I am part Irish.

The solution to the AS problem is to do what we can to help the countries they come from so that they have no need to flee and try to get here.

We sometimes we need to consider the privaions and dangers these migrants go through to get her, and how bad life would have to be for us to consider such a journey.

Freya5

Wyllow3

We can't do that - France would have to agree to accept, it would be a hostile act of aggression in international law. If such a simple solution were ever feasible, it would have been done in 2020 and 2021 when returning the boats options were discussed widely before Rwanda was cooked up.

Surely that works both ways. France send them, escort them even, into British waters. Then we could refuse to take them. So take back to France. These people are not in need, they are in France, they are selfish chancers, who would trample a child to death to get on a boat to take them to the land of milk and honey.

How do you know all this Freya? It's unbelievable really the amount of in depth knowledge you have on thousands and thousands of people you have never met ( I assume)

Perhaps you volunteer and have spent time chatting to refugees.
I can only assume this is where you glean your thorough understanding of the compex situation.

Wyllow3

We can't do that - France would have to agree to accept, it would be a hostile act of aggression in international law. If such a simple solution were ever feasible, it would have been done in 2020 and 2021 when returning the boats options were discussed widely before Rwanda was cooked up.

Surely that works both ways. France send them, escort them even, into British waters. Then we could refuse to take them. So take back to France. These people are not in need, they are in France, they are selfish chancers, who would trample a child to death to get on a boat to take them to the land of milk and honey.

Ramblingrose22

Another interesting rule in Denmark.

When my DS went to live there in 2013 he had to sign a form saying that he would not be a burden on the state or claim any thing from public funds for the first 5 years after his arrival.

I think he did get free hospital treatment though.

I don't know if this rule is still in place.

That’s really interesting because we were still in the EU then, and we were told here in Britain that EU citizens were not allowed to claim benefits here in Britain only for the first three months, not for five years. If we’d had a rule like that we probably would never have left, which would have been a good thing.

Denmark’s approach seems to make things more uncertain for people seeking asylum since they only get to stay while their home country is unsafe. It might reduce numbers, but I wonder how that impacts those who really need long-term help. I remember dealing with some paperwork when moving countries, and having an apostillelondon.com/uk-apostille/apostille-for-birth-certificate/ was one of those things that made the process smoother. It’s something to think about if someone’s trying to stay longer or needs to handle legal stuff while abroad.

Freya5

Wyllow3

We can't do that - France would have to agree to accept, it would be a hostile act of aggression in international law. If such a simple solution were ever feasible, it would have been done in 2020 and 2021 when returning the boats options were discussed widely before Rwanda was cooked up.

Isn't it a hostile act of maritime law when the French navy escort these people into British waters.
I suggest we stop handing them 500million pounds unless they stop this act of facilitating illegal migrants into our waters.

This is worth a read as regards what the French Police can and try to do: (interesting bit later in the article as regards yes they do try and puncture boats or stop them leaving the coast). And what they cannot legally do: they are very active:

but whats happening now is that boats are not launched at the pick up place, they are launched further down the coast at night and at dawn come close to the beach but not actually on land.

If the French coastguards apprehend a boat at sea in difficulties yes, just as the Brits do,

they will escort if struggling or rescue of the boat fails and bring back to the relevant coast (French coast, French waters, Brit coast, if in Brit waters)

news.sky.com/story/migrants-try-to-board-small-boat-off-french-beach-in-desperate-bid-for-britain-as-powerless-police-watch-on-13154980

There is a long and detailed article in Le Monde detailing actions but its behind a paywall.

Just been watching massive demos going on in Ireland against immigration. They say they’re full and in some parts of ROI some communities now have more immigrants than locals.

Wyllow3

We can't do that - France would have to agree to accept, it would be a hostile act of aggression in international law. If such a simple solution were ever feasible, it would have been done in 2020 and 2021 when returning the boats options were discussed widely before Rwanda was cooked up.

Isn't it a hostile act of maritime law when the French navy escort these people into British waters.
I suggest we stop handing them 500million pounds unless they stop this act of facilitating illegal migrants into our waters.

Visgir1

If Germany have started to do this.. Who will be next?

I can tell you who won’t!
Britain.

I don’t think arms should be sold to any country. A country can quickly become ‘unstable’ as we have seen many times. I can’t think of a stable country these days - even in the ‘west’.

winterwhite

I hope that all those who think that immigration numbers are too high are equally loud in their opposition to this country selling arms to unstable countries and regimes. We can’t egg on conflict from the sidelines and then decline responsibility for the results.

👏👏👏👏👏

I hope that all those who think that immigration numbers are too high are equally loud in their opposition to this country selling arms to unstable countries and regimes. We can’t egg on conflict from the sidelines and then decline responsibility for the results.

ronib

Cossy well I can’t imagine turning up to say Italy without first finding out what I had to do to live there long term. I think there’s due process to being accepted into another country…. Although if the Labour government persists with its anti pensioner policies, I might be tempted.

You don’t need to claim asylum in another country through no choice do you!

We don’t persecute people here in the UK for their sexuality, politics or other beliefs.

Despite the issues here, and there are many caused by the previous govt., and now it seems by the current govt., we are still free to express our views, to peacefully protest, to have an education, to live openly in gay relationships and follow our political persuasions.

If you personally wanted to relocate to Italy (or any country of your choosing) of course you’d find out how to do this and what you need to do, just like the many many migrants who enter our country quite legitimately and settle here. Far far more come in this way than those coming in small boats and in lorries.

Cossy well I can’t imagine turning up to say Italy without first finding out what I had to do to live there long term. I think there’s due process to being accepted into another country…. Although if the Labour government persists with its anti pensioner policies, I might be tempted.

Allira

^There are people on here who’ve worked with refugees over the years and pretty recently.^

Asylum seekers are not refugees until or unless they are granted refugee status
Economic migrants are not asylum seekers or refugees.

www.habitatforhumanity.org.uk/blog/2016/09/refugees-asylum-seekers-migrants-crucial-difference/#:~:text=Unlike%20refugees%20who%20cannot%20safely,own%20immigration%20laws%20and%20processes.

I agree, I absolutely know the difference between AS and economic migrants. My point is not all crossing are economic migrants!

ronib

Cossy because the paperwork isn’t in order?

Yes, but that’s factual and could be down to many factors?

I’m not at all against controlled, fair immigration of all types, and I’m totally in favour of stopping the small boats cross and lorries hiding people, and people trafficking in general (possibly for different reasons to you, but the net result would be the same)

My understanding (& I may have got this wrong) is that the UK would have found it much easier to “send them back) if we were still in the EU?

There are people on here who’ve worked with refugees over the years and pretty recently.

Asylum seekers are not refugees until or unless they are granted refugee status
Economic migrants are not asylum seekers or refugees.

www.habitatforhumanity.org.uk/blog/2016/09/refugees-asylum-seekers-migrants-crucial-difference/#:~:text=Unlike%20refugees%20who%20cannot%20safely,own%20immigration%20laws%20and%20processes.

Cossy because the paperwork isn’t in order?

Macadia

I am so confused. Why is it that someone should not travel and settle in the UK?

Because we don’t want Jonny Foreigner over here!
Because we are full!
Because they steal our jobs!
Because we are an Island and we will sink!
Because they are all criminals!
Because Donald Trump says they eat our cats and dogs!
Because they get better treated than “our own”

Take your pick! These are the ridiculous reasons that some people think!

Bigbopper

A small majority of AS are economic migrants, many have links with England, many speak English as a second language, many come from Syria and Afghanistan.

There were women and children on the last boat which sank.

What we need is a quick, efficient and effective way of processing them, better agreements with the French, a way to stop the traffickers and safe ways for people to enter and seek asylum.

Simply quoting ring wing press to prove a point doesn’t really cut it here.

There are people on here who’ve worked with refugees over the years and pretty recently.

Wyllow3

We can't do that - France would have to agree to accept, it would be a hostile act of aggression in international law. If such a simple solution were ever feasible, it would have been done in 2020 and 2021 when returning the boats options were discussed widely before Rwanda was cooked up.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

I am so confused. Why is it that someone should not travel and settle in the UK?

petra

Sago

eggplant

Sago

A young man in our City sought asylum due to his homosexuality.
He was clearly undecided as he managed to father 3 children to 3 different women.

Is he a friend, is that how you have such details?

No it was reported widely in the local and national press

For those who dispute the above post.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/15/nigerian-asylum-gay-three-children-parcel-fraud/

There's no room for him in prison, can he be deported now or is it too late?

rosie1959

GrannyGravy13

I have just read that Germany is closing its borders, needs must.

But would that actually work we are surrounded by water and that doesn't deter people

I’m afraid being an island is our Archilles heal in this situation.
By the international rules of the sea you must react to a mayday call.
Where as if you are entering Germany it will 99%certain this will be by road, train, walking. At some time you will be asked to present your passport.
I fully expect Germany to use drones on other routes.