What Will You Do With 10 Million Frozen Pensioners, Rachel?

That's exactly what they do with most benefits.

Pip has something like 58 percent of claims being rejected when first applied for, with added bonus of claiments feeling they might not be "ill enough".

Fleur20

What I don’t understand is why people on the old basic pension have to claim pension credits in the first place. If the payment is sent out from the DWP, then surely their records show who is entitled to any other benefits, the ‘computer’ should surely throw up this information. Then the person qualifying for the benefit would be contacted directly with the appropriate information. Therefore, no-one would be unaware of their entitlement.
I say this because if there are hundreds of thousands of entitled people not claiming, because they don’t know; for whatever reason; the current system is simply not fit for purpose.

Fleur You are not taking into account that many state pensioners have other sources of income, usually private or occupational pensions, and those extra sources of income will not be on the state pension website.

For example my state pension is less than the PC level, but I have a substantial occupational pension that takes me way beyond the PC level. I live with my DH, his state pension exceeds the PC level, but again he has a substantial occupational pension as well, so our joint household income

Other things that affect income levels include the level of your savings. So what you suggest would not work.

Nor do I entirely agree that the current system is failing nor I do have a lot of sympathy for those who do not claim PC when they are entitled. Nobody was always old and retired. PC has been around has been around since 2003 and before that a similar scheme called Minimum Income Guarantee was in place, so these benefits have been round a long time and have been very well publicised, so many of those now not claiming were only their 60s, 50, or even 40s when these benefits were introduced, and as I said have always been well publicised, so they should know about them.

Likewise I am not sure the 'too proud to claim' has much weight these days. When I worked as a Home Advisor for a charity for the elderly, I never had anyone who I found was entitles to PC, refuse to claim it for any reason, let alone be too proud. These are old excuses and no longer apply.

I do understand that there will always be a few people who struggle to engage with the normal world, but I think we really must expect people who are capable of going about their ordinary lives, holding down jobs, owning or renting a home, running cars or using public transport are capable of being aware of what benfits are available, even if they do not know the details, and of enquiring about them when they might be applicable.

Freya5

Breakfast clubs are a great, safe choice for working parents, children looked after, food and warmth before being taken safely to school. Then after school club too. My grandchildren all went, no such thing when mine were small, but then again I was lucky enough to be able to stay at home with them. I really don't understand why there is some disparaging of parents taking children to one. Peace of mind where children are concerned is surely most important for working parents.

I really don't understand why there is some disparaging of parents taking children to one. Peace of mind where children are concerned is surely most important for working parents.

Hear, hear!

... working parents getting it in the neck because there's now an institution which provides breakfast in a suitable environment (for which many will have to pay)...

It's about time such a brilliant scheme was instituted for working people - the very wealthy have been farming their offspring out to boarding schools - where they not only get breakfast, but lunch, tea, dinner and supper, too - for hundreds of years! In fact, they offload the whole shebang of bringing up their kids onto someone else!

Chocolatelovinggran

Returning to the original debate, I think that it would be justifiable to say that pensioners paying tax at a higher rate could forego the WFA, surely?
The charming lady I met at the airport, on her way to a Spa retreat in St Lucia probably doesn't need it.

The charming lady I met at the airport, on her way to a Spa retreat in St Lucia probably doesn't need it.

Of course.

But the principle behind the methodology of paying all pensioners the allowance was that it was a cheaper way of getting the money to those who needed it.

Means-testing means admin - probably a whole department devoted to the process in an office in a building which has to be paid for, as does the heating and lighting, sanitation, office equipment, the staff - with, most likely, a manager in charge. And - it's not a one-off process. As people's means change, means-testing is usually done on a yearly basis.

Someone has worked out that paying the allowance to all pensioners is cheaper than means-testing it. As it's all about the money - it makes sense.

Poor children typically grow into poor adults. Adults who remain poor all their working life will become poor pensioners, more so as state benefits reduce and more have only their compulsory "work" pension to rely on. The contributions are ridiculously low and unless workers invest far more in better pension schemes they will never have enough to live on. Poverty needs tackling in childhood to break the chain if events that lead to life long poverty. Student loans, a huge gap between graduate and minimum wage jobs lack of housing, poor health, underfunded schools, fuel poverty, the list goes on. Their will be exceptions, some break free and prosper but so many are damaged by an impoverished start that they never find the confidence or ability to defeat the odds. The WFA is less than £1 a day and I and millions of others can live without it. Yes, those that need it should receive it but we need to do better at tackling poverty. If you look after those at the bottom everyone benefits.

👏

Their will be exceptions, some break free and prosper but so many are damaged by an impoverished start that they never find the confidence or ability to defeat the odds.

An impoverished childhood can be the catalyst that spurs many on to success. Good parenting rather than wealth is they key, they is why SureStart was a good idea.

However, having the 'right' contacts probably helps more!

Good grammar can help too 😀
Actually, it was fat finger!

rather than wealth is they key, they is why
rather than wealth is the key, that is why

Norah

Lisaangel10

“Parents need educating that if they are making babies then they need to provide for them. It’s not other peoples jobs to give their kids breakfasts. Some cereal and milk, a boiled egg and toast, yoghurt and fruit, porridge, these are cheap and easy.
Seriously?!?!!???

Work hours, poverty, no suitable cooking/refrigeration space -- the list is long. Children deserve to be fed and learn better when fed.”

Utterly appalling comment!

Can Mum’s ever win??

Working, no nurture and cannot be bothered to give them breakfast!

No working, scroungers and lazy!

For goodness sake lisaangel10, I really think you need to get a grip and not be so so patronising and downright unkind!

Well done Norah for your common sense response!

Greyisnotmycolour

Poor children typically grow into poor adults. Adults who remain poor all their working life will become poor pensioners, more so as state benefits reduce and more have only their compulsory "work" pension to rely on. The contributions are ridiculously low and unless workers invest far more in better pension schemes they will never have enough to live on. Poverty needs tackling in childhood to break the chain if events that lead to life long poverty. Student loans, a huge gap between graduate and minimum wage jobs lack of housing, poor health, underfunded schools, fuel poverty, the list goes on. Their will be exceptions, some break free and prosper but so many are damaged by an impoverished start that they never find the confidence or ability to defeat the odds. The WFA is less than £1 a day and I and millions of others can live without it. Yes, those that need it should receive it but we need to do better at tackling poverty. If you look after those at the bottom everyone benefits.

👏👏👏👏

karmalady

I do think breakfast club is a great idea, it will help working parents tremendously. No more nagging to get children fed before the school run and I also think it will help teach social skills as well as eating skills.

Most parents need to work these days and they need to get to work on time. All that stress first thing cannot not be good for children. Maybe now they will be keen to get into school and to have some socialising time with friends before the academic day starts.

That 10 million figure is sheer nonsense.

WFA should be stopped for all those in the higher tax bands but not for those in the lower portion of the 20% band.

👏👏👏

MissAdventure

There is 7m budget to be put in place to fund the free breakfast clubs.

There are people on these forums who have said they give away their fuel allowance to variety to or family.

Weren't some food companies, eg Kellogs and Gregg's, plus FareShare, helping by giving cereals and other food?
The biggest cost, I would think, is staffing.
Then of course schools have to be heated etc for longer hours than normal.

growstuff

Allira

growstuff

Allira

MayBee70

Well, if the money I’m not going to get as a WFP is going to allow the government to give free breakfasts to all primary school children it’s fine by me. But heaven forbid that some people on here can bring themselves to praise anything that Reeves is doing .

It shouldn't be a case of either/or

A country which cannot care for its elderly and its children is ethically bankrupt.

In your opinion.

So you don't think a country should care for its elderly and its young?

I am surprised.

I think it should care for all its citizens.

I think you're trying to score a point that doesn't actipually exist!
😁

No doubt it will involve some costs.

Investing in the future, I'd say.
But what do I, a "so called parent" know?

The majority of working parents manage quite satisfactolriy to give their children their breakfast before they go to school.

I worked for most of my children's childhood, including fulltime with a commute. My DH was away a lot of the time, but my children never went to school without breakfast.

There was far less help for working mothers whne I was dooing it, Oh, and I didn't have any grandparents living nearby, except for one year.

I am all for breakfast clubs for those children from homes where parents are struggling - ill-health, addiction, having disabled children, shiftless and feckless. But children from those homes will not be able to pay for breakfasts, so the only children who will benefit will be from financially secure and untrammelled homes. where there parents are quite capable of giving children breakfast themselves.

Hark at you, with your long words.
Actipually

Then they're free to give them their breakfast, arent they?

Nobody will be making them attend.

However, others whose jobs dont rally in with a leisurely breakfast, will be using breakfast clubs, as they do already.

This is not a new concept.
Breakfast and after school clubs are for everyone.

All I can say is Monica, that you had unusually compliant children. My son had to be dragged from his bed every morning and into the car to go to school, which was on my way to work. He went to breakfast club, but otherwise he would have had to have a drink and a snack in the car or at morning break, because there was no way he would prioritise breakfast over an extra 10 minutes (or ideally, an hour or two) in bed. I really don’t think that’s unusual.

I've never been able to send my grandson to school over an hour before the gates open.
My shifts started at 7am and often involved a commute.

The young mum in our block had two little girls, close in age, and at the same school.

Their hours are totally different, though, so she has to juggle that with full time work.
Nothing shiftless about her whatsoever.

She is expected to work, she does, and she outs gwr girls into breakfast club ad and when necessary.

RR sounded very self satisfied yesterday … whoopee Do … she’s the first female chancellor… so what! That seemed to be her priority… that and her freebies!

M0nica

The majority of working parents manage quite satisfactolriy to give their children their breakfast before they go to school.

I worked for most of my children's childhood, including fulltime with a commute. My DH was away a lot of the time, but my children never went to school without breakfast.

There was far less help for working mothers whne I was dooing it, Oh, and I didn't have any grandparents living nearby, except for one year.

I am all for breakfast clubs for those children from homes where parents are struggling - ill-health, addiction, having disabled children, shiftless and feckless. But children from those homes will not be able to pay for breakfasts, so the only children who will benefit will be from financially secure and untrammelled homes. where there parents are quite capable of giving children breakfast themselves.

This is seriously not true.

Firstly, children from poorer families won't have to pay. Schools already receive Pupil Premium for many of them. In fact, some schools decided years ago that providing breakfast clubs was an effective use of the money and this has been supported by research.

Secondly, (and I don't really know how many times this needs repeating) parents who use breakfast clubs for their children aren't feckless. You keep saying that your own children were organised in the morning. Does this mean you left them on their own after you left for work?

Many children have two working parents - and most of them have to start work well before the beginning of the school day. I was one of many when I kept an eye on my children in the early morning, got myself ready for work and then took them to breakfast club (where at least I knew they would be supervised well and given breakfast), while I did my best to arrive at work on time (crossing all my fingers and toes that there wouldn't be traffic hold ups). Feckless I was not!!!

Misadventure - my husband now coming up to 75 went to Bounds Green primary school.

Casdon

All I can say is Monica, that you had unusually compliant children. My son had to be dragged from his bed every morning and into the car to go to school, which was on my way to work. He went to breakfast club, but otherwise he would have had to have a drink and a snack in the car or at morning break, because there was no way he would prioritise breakfast over an extra 10 minutes (or ideally, an hour or two) in bed. I really don’t think that’s unusual.

Are you me?

Oh, no, it was my my DS who was up and out doing a paper round early every morning, oldest child was always good at getting up but hated breakfast.

The youngest was the problem; I tried everything from dragging off her duvet to sprinkling water on her but always managed to get her to school on my way to work with a minute to spare. Luckily I worked flexible hours, if I was five minutes late could make it up another time.
Not everyone's job is like that however.

I've never tried to claim PC as OH deferred his pension for 3 years so gets more and I have a small (less than £20 a week) private pension from a part time job, but not a full state pension. So we're definitely over the limit.
Seems wrong that OH continued working to get a slightly larger pension which has stopped us getting PC and WFA
We're OK though as although we're managing and have some savings our eldest son assured us he will pay our fuel bills if we ever need help as he has a very well paid job. Feel very sorry for people just over the limit with no savings. Hopefully charities will help them.

Allira I'm not trying to score any points. I do think all citizens matter and I really dislike any divisiveness. The mantra about the elderly and the young has become much-repeated and risks forgetting all the other citizens. If the emphasis were on a properly functioning society, there would be no need to single out specific groups.

Moreover, the "elderly" do not make up a homogenous group. I know people in their 90s who live alone and are independent, relying on just the same medical care to which everybody is entitled. A couple of them are wealthy by almost any definition and really are not vulnerable and in need of any special consideration. Anybody can go through periods of their life when they are more vulnerable and (IMO) society should support them.