What Will You Do With 10 Million Frozen Pensioners, Rachel?

Doodledog

It also removes stigma from those who would feel embarrassed if only 'the poor' were allowed to go. When I was at school there were separate queues for children who got free school meals - I think there were even different coloured tickets. My friend's mother was a widow and my friend qualified for free meals as a result, but often skipped them because she hated having to stand in the 'free dinners queue'.

Norah

Doodledog

It also removes stigma from those who would feel embarrassed if only 'the poor' were allowed to go. When I was at school there were separate queues for children who got free school meals - I think there were even different coloured tickets. My friend's mother was a widow and my friend qualified for free meals as a result, but often skipped them because she hated having to stand in the 'free dinners queue'.

Disappointing anyone wouldn't want all children well fed.

Doodledog

It also removes stigma from those who would feel embarrassed if only 'the poor' were allowed to go. When I was at school there were separate queues for children who got free school meals - I think there were even different coloured tickets. My friend's mother was a widow and my friend qualified for free meals as a result, but often skipped them because she hated having to stand in the 'free dinners queue'.

Yes. We were talking about this on my secondary schools Facebook page.

I'm astonished that some posters think it entirely reasonable that those who don't need the WFA should give it
away. Could you imagine the uproar if any other benefit claimant boasted they didn't need the benefit and just gave it to charity ? There would be hell to pay.

DGS1 (7) goes to breakfast club from choice! He asked to go, when he realised some of his friends were meeting up before School - it gives them a chance to socialize. His Daddy drops him off and DD1 then has time to sort herself out at home, before she leaves for work later.

But WFA isn’t a claimed benefit grey. It might have been given to help out with energy bills, but it was up to the individual how to use it. Most I know used it for Christmas spending.
AA is awarded to recipients to make their own lives easier - but I know someone who gives her AA to her son to help him out and another who uses it to pay her DGD’s travelling expenses.
A dear departed friend merely saved hers for a decade, as her DH did everything she wanted.

Wyllow3

Where do you get the 10 million figure from mae?

Reference?

In the UK there are 12 million who receive state pension, most who can afford to do without the heating allowance. For those on the margins, of course, more should get WFA, but this is just a plucked out the air figure propaganda for a typical "shock horror O/P.

*So I ask again, where is the reference for this figure of 10 million out of a total of 12 million?*

Well there are 3.2 million pensioners who pay tax at the higher levels, ie have an income of over £50,270.

I was a teacher. My children were given breakfast every day.
However, my working day started before eight and my children needed to be provided for until their day started at 8.50.
I am surprised that this makes me shiftless on the eyes of some.
And, my children are all " parents" (?) and are excellent cooks, men and women - much better than me. I will acknowledge in the spirit of full disclosure, that bar is set pretty low.

Returning to the original debate, I think that it would be justifiable to say that pensioners paying tax at a higher rate could forego the WFA, surely?
The charming lady I met at the airport, on her way to a Spa retreat in St Lucia probably doesn't need it.

I do think breakfast club is a great idea, it will help working parents tremendously. No more nagging to get children fed before the school run and I also think it will help teach social skills as well as eating skills.

Most parents need to work these days and they need to get to work on time. All that stress first thing cannot not be good for children. Maybe now they will be keen to get into school and to have some socialising time with friends before the academic day starts.

That 10 million figure is sheer nonsense.

WFA should be stopped for all those in the higher tax bands but not for those in the lower portion of the 20% band.

Chocolatelovinggran

Returning to the original debate, I think that it would be justifiable to say that pensioners paying tax at a higher rate could forego the WFA, surely?
The charming lady I met at the airport, on her way to a Spa retreat in St Lucia probably doesn't need it.

You do not have to be on higher rate tax. The median (not average ) income for pensioner households is around £28,000, Many of the 5 or 6 million pensioner households with high incomes, will not pay higher rate tax because they contain 2 people and 2 people with a pension of £30,000 each is a household income of £60,000, over the £50,000 higher tax rate levelbut spread over 2 individually taxed people on incomes below it.

As I keep saying, ad nauseum. All these add on bells and whistles, whether WFA, prescriptions, bus passes etc, should all be abolished and dealt with by increasing the PC level by £30-40 a week.

If that had been done, we wouldn't have all this fuss.

Jane43

Wyllow3

Where do you get the 10 million figure from mae?

Reference?

In the UK there are 12 million who receive state pension, most who can afford to do without the heating allowance. For those on the margins, of course, more should get WFA, but this is just a plucked out the air figure propaganda for a typical "shock horror O/P.

*So I ask again, where is the reference for this figure of 10 million out of a total of 12 million?*

Well there are 3.2 million pensioners who pay tax at the higher levels, ie have an income of over £50,270.

Everyone on less than £50, 270 is not at risk of freezing to death though.

In answer to the original question, the frozen pensioners can volunteer to run the free breakfast clubs (they will be warm) because someone has to and the money isn't going to run to staff costs as well.

I expect some parents may volunteer.

MissAdventure

I expect some parents may volunteer.

I don't see how parents will be volunteering, they need to get to work, but will there be sufficient fit willing pensioners? Presumably they will all need DBS checks, this isn't going to come cheap. That's not to say it shouldn't happen but it will need paid staff and will schools truly have an increased budget to fully fund it?

As I’ve said before, there never was a figure of ten million frozen pensioners. The figure mooted for possible excess pensioner deaths was £4000 if WFA was abolished. However that was not a figure that Labour looked at, the figure apparently came from the Conservatives a few years ago, when they looked at possibly restricting the WFA. They decided not to follow through with that policy, and it was dropped. In fact then, following the Ukraine war, and the huge rises in fuel prices, the Conservative government supported everyone in the country for one year with fuel allowances and support was given to pensioners for three years. Additionally pensioners and other vulnerable groups were given cost of living allowances. People forget. I don’t recall anyone on here complaining about those generous allowances given to pensioners over the last three years, or saying they were giving it all to charity.
Some years ago Gordon Brown awarded the pensioners a 75 pence per week pension increase. This was greeted with much derision by pensioners and the general public. Labour has form with pensioners. The 75 pence per week, the tax raid on private pensions by Gordon Brown during their last term of office. No one should be surprised when Labour target pensioners. They have little regard for pensioners because they are perceived to vote Conservative (they obviously don’t read GN!)
This latest decision was planned before Labour took office. They had full access to all the books before the election, just as is the usual practice. The removal of WFA was preplanned. It happened too soon after the election to have been a sudden decision. And anyway, why pick on the most vulnerable group when there are so many other possible, and more worthy targets.

As for pensioners running school breakfast clubs, for goodness, don’t be ridiculous.

What I don’t understand is why people on the old basic pension have to claim pension credits in the first place. If the payment is sent out from the DWP, then surely their records show who is entitled to any other benefits, the ‘computer’ should surely throw up this information. Then the person qualifying for the benefit would be contacted directly with the appropriate information. Therefore, no-one would be unaware of their entitlement.
I say this because if there are hundreds of thousands of entitled people not claiming, because they don’t know; for whatever reason; the current system is simply not fit for purpose.

maddyfour

As for pensioners running school breakfast clubs, for goodness, don’t be ridiculous.

Nobody said they'd be running them.

maddyfour

As for pensioners running school breakfast clubs, for goodness, don’t be ridiculous.

I don’t understand why that is such a ridiculous suggestion, we already have free breakfasts at school in Wales, and grandparents and other older people do help out. If you’re somebody who gets up early, it’s a lovely, feel good volunteering opportunity. Breakfast clubs all need to be professionally run and managed obviously, but there is a role for volunteers too.

Fleur20 that's been a puzzle to me. If they know there are all these people entitled to pension credit but not claiming it then why aren't they contacting them directly, or are they just plucking numbers out of the air?

There is 7m budget to be put in place to fund the free breakfast clubs.

There are people on these forums who have said they give away their fuel allowance to variety to or family.

Fleur20

What I don’t understand is why people on the old basic pension have to claim pension credits in the first place. If the payment is sent out from the DWP, then surely their records show who is entitled to any other benefits, the ‘computer’ should surely throw up this information. Then the person qualifying for the benefit would be contacted directly with the appropriate information. Therefore, no-one would be unaware of their entitlement.
I say this because if there are hundreds of thousands of entitled people not claiming, because they don’t know; for whatever reason; the current system is simply not fit for purpose.

I agree with you on this 👍

If they know people should be entitled to Pension Credit, just flipping give it to them without the need to fill in a 23+ page form 😡

Rosie51

Fleur20 that's been a puzzle to me. If they know there are all these people entitled to pension credit but not claiming it then why aren't they contacting them directly, or are they just plucking numbers out of the air?

No expert, but I think they must know, because all income, including pension income must be linked through our National insurance numbers, otherwise they wouldn’t know who to send tax returns to? If anybody does know how it works, I’d be interested to hear too.

Casdon

Rosie51

Fleur20 that's been a puzzle to me. If they know there are all these people entitled to pension credit but not claiming it then why aren't they contacting them directly, or are they just plucking numbers out of the air?

No expert, but I think they must know, because all income, including pension income must be linked through our National insurance numbers, otherwise they wouldn’t know who to send tax returns to? If anybody does know how it works, I’d be interested to hear too.

Agreed, the cynic in me thinks that they will save money by making Pension Credit an applied for benefit