Assisted dying

On the assisted dying debate, and may be its a perception on my part. The media sets the framing of the debate in that a favourable outcome in parliament is somehow a progressive action. Any one against is somehow less civilised a bit like the same gender marriage vote. Just because a govt votes for something doesn’t make it right. All people have a set of values they cherish it doesn’t make them lesser people.

Kalm 👏👏👏

Yes if we are suggesting people should abstain if they are religious, can I suggest everyone who is comfortable financially, who has a supportive family, etc etc should abstain as their views impact some of the most vulnerable in society, of whom they are clueless. I am an atheist by the way.

OldFrill

People with religious objections should abstain. The bill is about choice. I don't want my choice denied by others' religious dogma.

That is exactly why I support assisted dying; I object to people inflicting their religious beliefs on me and my decisions.

Great post by the way Kalm.

sassenach512

Those of us who have watched helplessly while our loved ones suffered a long lingering death will be glad of this vote being passed. I know both my parents and my sister would have chosen to have this option

My parents would have too sassenach I will never forget my Dad screaming in pain, or the husk of my Mum lingering on.

www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h4517/rr-3#:~:text=All%20types%20of%20Assisted%20suicide,the%20death%20of%20any%20person.

I am not religious so that has no impact on me I am afraid.
This brilliant post on X did though.
The reason why the assisted dying bill will unfortunately pass will be because on one side there are the emotive personal stories which mainline straight into the 'be kind brain' and on the other side the cold hypotheticals about possible victims, whic will more than likely come true, but which have no clout at the moment.

An interesting link kalms thank you.

For me it helpfully highlights the struggle those with strong religious beliefs may have. However, no matter the strength of their beliefs it is wrong in my view for them to take precedence over differing beliefs and wishes.

With robust safeguarding protection in place my personal view is that the choice should be there. Assisted dying would be the right choice for some people, as it would be the wrong choice for others. Not everyone has a loving, caring family willing and able to support them to their end, not all will be sustained by religious beliefs. Even with the best medical care not all pain and physical challenges (eg being unable to swallow) are manageable. Our ability to tolerate pain and lack of dignity varies from person to person.

Personally I believe there are circumstances in which I would choose assisted dying safe in the knowledge my family would support my wishes while not manipulating the situation.

For me this debate is about choice. While it would be wrong to expect any medic to go against deeply held beliefs it would be equally wrong for those beliefs to block access for those who do not share them. How this can happen must surely be part of the debate.

There was a programme on assisted dying I think some while ago with Miriam Margolyes which was very interesting but I can't remember the detail unfortunately. I certainly don't trust MPs making such decisions - they lack thought and information in my view on this type of subject.

Mollygo

GrannyGravy13

Excellent end of life care should be routinely accessible to all.

I have concerns around coercion.

Today 19:10 Bridie22

I support assisted dying, but strong safeguards must be put in place before it is passed into law.

Today 20:36 Galaxy

It will pass into law and be a disaster for vulnerable people.

These say it all.
But doctors have already implemented assisted dying under different guises.
My mum was still asking if I thought she was going to die, when the treatment was already leaving her unable to live.
They called it a pathway . . .

Yes Mollygo.
I don’t really know what I think. One the one hand, it will help some people with serious illnesses, who are suffering and want to die, but on the other……

Certainly strong safeguards are in place!

For more than twenty three years I have debited my bank account monthly to the favour of Dignity in Dying, (Dignity) and would not have done so without most careful study of the safeguards.

Is it right that a terminally ill man or woman who cannot afford £12,000 to go to Dignitas in Switzerland , must suffer sometimes intractable pain until they finally die.

Intractable pain is pain that no drugs can reach without a dosage that would kill the patient.

cornergran

An interesting link kalms thank you.

For me it helpfully highlights the struggle those with strong religious beliefs may have. However, no matter the strength of their beliefs it is wrong in my view for them to take precedence over differing beliefs and wishes.

With robust safeguarding protection in place my personal view is that the choice should be there. Assisted dying would be the right choice for some people, as it would be the wrong choice for others. Not everyone has a loving, caring family willing and able to support them to their end, not all will be sustained by religious beliefs. Even with the best medical care not all pain and physical challenges (eg being unable to swallow) are manageable. Our ability to tolerate pain and lack of dignity varies from person to person.

Personally I believe there are circumstances in which I would choose assisted dying safe in the knowledge my family would support my wishes while not manipulating the situation.

For me this debate is about choice. While it would be wrong to expect any medic to go against deeply held beliefs it would be equally wrong for those beliefs to block access for those who do not share them. How this can happen must surely be part of the debate.

Absolutely this...

My Mum died in 1990, my Father 2020 and even now, the memories of what they experienced can bring me to my knees.

If they had been given the choice, the pain, lack of dignity and absolute terror they experienced would have been taken away.

I want that choice.

Are you aware of what happened to people with learning disabilities during the pandemic? Anyone who has any experience of peopke with learning disabilities in healthcare knows the word safeguards is not true.

We shouldn't forget children and adults with Down syndrome were historically denied heart surgery by some surgeons. That was an "ethical" decision according to those doctors. Safeguards to prevent vulnerable people being pressured into decisions would need to be more vigorous than anything we've had up until now.

My beloved husband died at aged 47 from a terminal diagnosis. Neither he, myself or our children would ever have considered assisted dying then as we needed that extra time to show much we loved him.
Now I am 87 and have enjoyed my life but very tired and worn down with various ailments. I’m still enjoying living on my own in the family house with a lot of support from family who live close by and I’m enjoying reading and listening to my favourite music but I would like to go to sleep and not wake up. I’m sure this would upset my family a lot if they knew this but hopefully they never will, I have 3 friends of similar age who feel the same way

Palliative care/Hospices are recommended in Islam, and the best hospice for the Muslim is to die at home naturally with family members around (HOME HOSPICE).
This is the best dignified death/best death
.
No one would argue with this, but the truth of the matter is that there are too few hospice places for those who need them, and care in the home depends on appropriately trained palliative care nurses being available - and they are stretched to the absolute limit as are district nurses. I’m not going to argue the rights and wrongs of assisted dying. Often, by the time a hospice place becomes available the patient is too ill to be moved, or has died, often in extreme pain. The government should be giving more support to the hospice movement, and to providing more palliative care beds in hospitals. But the NHS, as we all know, is broken, so what hope?

keepingquiet

I'm sorry but 'booking' your own death sounds like the stuff of nightmares to me.

Probably not such a nightmare if one is close to the
end of life with a non curable condition in great pain etc etc.

Before laws on assisted dying are passed, parliament needs t address the proper funding of end of life care. The two are inextricably linked, and as long as that care continues to be poor, then an objective vote cannot be taken.

Yes in terms if the debate I agree. The problem with the cabinet is that they hide behind a smoke screen of process and red tape. The blood scandal, Thalidomide, Covid and the Horizon scandal are examples. When Sunak was asked about Horizon he (&govt) accepted along with the rest of the cabinet it was an injustice and then said I will get a minister to do expedite it…..what….he is in charge. JFDI is a phrase in industry. Computer says NO comes to mind.

When deciding whether you wish to end your life you will consider what your life is currently like. It is a decision that does not happen in a vacuum. If you are receiving excellent end of life care and are able to find some pleasure in sharing your last days/months with your loved ones then you will probably decide against ending your life. If you are receiving the sort of rubbish care that is sadly the fate of many in the UK, then you are likely to decide enough is enough.

End of life care needs to be properly funded and consistent across the UK. Round here it entirely depends on whether you are lucky enough to have relatives to advocate for you to get a scarce place in the excellent voluntary funded hospice.

I think I would enjoy my remaining life so much more if I knew I could end it if I really felt i wanted to.
Same for my family, couldn’t bear to watch them suffer.

Madgran77

keepingquiet

I'm sorry but 'booking' your own death sounds like the stuff of nightmares to me.

Probably not such a nightmare if one is close to the
end of life with a non curable condition in great pain etc etc.

Why do people assume everybody dies in great pain? As a former nurse for twenty years and lots of deaths I rarely came across this. A similar situation with my family members- good end of life care ensures this does not happen in people who are terminally ill.

Keepingquiet, but we don’t know what’s ahead for us, and for many it would be a great comfort to have some assurance that we wouldn’t die in terrible pain.
But that’s only half the story, loss of dignity, loss of mobility, loss of mind, endless other reasons why one might like to choose assisted dying.