Assisted dying

theworriedwell

Thinking about this I'm not sure I'd want to be treated by a doctor or nurse who is comfortable with killing people. For doctors and nurses who wouldn't be comfortable with it I wouldn't expect them to do it.

It's not about being "comfortable" with killing people per se! Its part of working with patients in their palliative end of life care.

In a lot of instances I think it could be a good thing but I don't trust 'people' to interpret the law effectively

Thinking about this I'm not sure I'd want to be treated by a doctor or nurse who is comfortable with killing people. For doctors and nurses who wouldn't be comfortable with it I wouldn't expect them to do it.

Lahlah 💐

Sorry about errors in above. I’m ill in bed just now!
I meant to say if we were living in a less materialistic BUT fairer and compassionate society.

Cont……..widened their criteria for AD after a few years? It’s quite sobering.

The proposed Assisted Dying Bill, is one I would have supported until recently, but after much thought I no longer believe that true “freedom of choice” is possible in our society. I am a humanist and have no religious act to grind. However having observed how legally Assisted Dying works in practice in other countries, notably Canada, I cannot support it.

If we were living less materialistic, fairer and compassionate society I would trust that the interests of the ill (physically and mentally) vulnerable and elderly would be secure when drawing up the “Safeguards” to the Bill.

I think the intentions for the Bill are sound, but looking at successive government’s treatment of the vulnerable in society, and indeed how many now live in poverty I can’t believe that believe that economic considerations would gradually outweigh ethical. How many countries have

MissAdventure

Considering the lengths some parents will go to cushion their grown up children from living within their means, doing without, and so on, I wouldnt be at all surprised to see angst ridden posts on gransnet.
"Should I end it all so my dd can buy a house?'

Totally agree.

That is awful, just terrible.
I really don't see why someone can't be sedated at that point.

Absolutely I am experience my father suffering in pain screaming out unable to move begging for someone to kill him all very disturbing not the type of end of life you'd wish on anyone

TheMaggiejane1

If assisted dying becomes the norm, how long will it be before you are considered to be a selfish nuisance if you don't comply.

Not long at all

As sure as night follows day, MissA.

Oh Lahlah my heart goes out to you: what an awful situation, and what a terrible dilemma for you and your daughter.
I do share a little of your OH's suspicions which has always made me feel opposed to the concept, but Baggs well made point, and your difficulties have made me start to re- think.
Sending you a virtual hug and flowers.

Considering the lengths some parents will go to cushion their grown up children from living within their means, doing without, and so on, I wouldnt be at all surprised to see angst ridden posts on gransnet.
"Should I end it all so my dd can buy a house?'

‘By’

CocoPops

Medical assistance in dying (M.A.I.D) is lawful here in Canada. I had a close friend who opted for M.A.I.D. She had lived with a chronic illness since childhood which worsened over the years, requiring spells in hospital. She had lived a happy and independent life and always maintained she would never go into a residential home. At 82 years old her condition worsened and she landed up in hospital. Very frail but totally "with it" mentally. She had reached the stage where independent living wasn't possible and said, "CocoPops, I can't look after myself anymore more. I want M.A.I.D." (She had been considering M.A.I.D. for 3 months.) Once the arrangements were made, she was relaxed, seemed happy and
my good friend died at a time of her choosing with her family at the bedside.Of course I was devastated but grateful she had the choice.

Thank you for sharing this very personal story of your friend’s choice. It is helpful to hear actual experiences of how this can work. I have a daughter with chronic illness who always maintains that she does not want to continue if she can’t live independently, so this issue is never far from my mind. I have promised to help her use Dignitas if necessary but it’s infinitely better to think that she might have this option here at home. But I’m also very aware of the potential risk to her as someone who is sometimes very unwell. On balance, I do want her (and others) to have the choice, especially as I get older and I know I may not be here to help her. I see it as a humane and a necessary step as medical advances mean that lives can be prolonged beyond the point where there is much quality left.
My OH has a more pessimistic view of human nature than me and feels that inevitably people will be coerced to end their lives my families who don’t want to see their inheritance lost to care costs.

Sorry meant to say too advanced directives are certainly debatable but are specifically separate from assisted dying as identified at present, in terms of the choice of the person who feels their (non) quality of life is no longer worth experiencing in the context of a life limiting illness.

Luckygirl3

And the goalposts do move as you get older - what would have seemed intolerable when young simply becomes a way of life to which we adapt. Which is a good reason to be wary of advance directives.

Absolutely we do adapt; an ongoing process for me over the last year or so which will continue. But the assisted dying bill is not about adaptation to variations on old age illnesses and disabilities. It is about when quality of life as the person experiencing it sees it, that is no longer worth experiencing.

Many years ago, probably around 40, there was a series of documentaries about terminal illness and they looked at a variety of cases. One that sticks in my mind is a man who was dying and his wife was angry it was taking too long. She said something about how she was still young, had young children and needed to get on with finding someone else. Imagine the pressure she would put on her inconvenient husband who was taking too long to die.

And the goalposts do move as you get older - what would have seemed intolerable when young simply becomes a way of life to which we adapt. Which is a good reason to be wary of advance directives.

A very good point I think Baggs

This may have been said already up-thread. I have read some but not all posts, mostly in batches since the thread began, so I'll have missed some. This is an explanation not an apology.

In my several years of reading about the subject of assisted suicide/assisted dying - whatever name it's given - one point has seemed very significant. When people know they have the option to end their suffering at a time that they choose, that often helps them to tolerate more than they might when no prospect of release is available to them.

I find that a point in its favour.

MissAdventure

To me, a choice someone makes when they are of sound mind and body, may change drastically when they're not.

Humans are very adaptable to all kinds of situations that they thought they could never cope with, and a diminished mind often means that things they found demeaning may now not be.

It's easy to say "I'd end it, or demand the right to", but that is sometimes enough, to know that there is that choice, and it means people will choose to keep living.

This is so true.

Nurseundercover

Having worked as a palliative care nurse for more than 20 years, it became clear that life is not about quantity but quality.
So when it comes to medically assisted dying, this should largely depend upon what one considers a tolerable quality of life once diagnosed with a terminal illness. Often symptoms can be controlled well when in the care of an experienced palliative nurse and knowledgeable consultant. However problems rise when there is a lack of understanding with regard to “holistic care” involving; physical, emotional, psychological and social aspects of the person. It’s not as simple as stopping physical pain when the psychological and emotional aspects are painful to the extreme. Many people simply want to have choice, and in knowing that you had that would choose to live as long as was tolerable. Currently people wanting assisted dying have to be well enough to be able to travel, which in turn means they bring their end date forward. If it were legal in this country this would delayed to the natural near ending of life. A death with respect for personal choice and dignity.
As a country I think we should all be given a vote on this very personal subject. This should not be left up to MPs to decide.

Spot on

Win You will also be aware with your experience that 6 months prediction, does often not hold, no-one knows for sure when it is the last 6 months of anyones life. My late mother was given a week on CHC she lived 2 years. My late husband was given Maximum 6 month on CHC and lived 8 years. To this day I wouldn't have chosen assisted living for either of them.

Yes the prediction is not necessarily accurate. Within the context of assisted dying the key is that when the patient feels that their quality of life is not worth bothering with, they can make that choice. So if the 6 months prediction with a life limiting illness is wrong and life is worth living for them, that is positive. They dont have to choose to end their life because of the prediction.

Having said that difficulties still exist in the context of patients no longer capable of making that decision for whatever reason.

I am sorry that you went through those experiences Win. I have experienced similar and it's very hard. 💐