Almost 1,000 migrants crossed the Channel yesterday.

I guess part of it is about the way things have always been and fear of the new. Identity cards have been in France long before the EU and here people are given them at 16 and renew them locally every fifteen years. Many French people do not bother to have passports because they only travel within the EU. It really isn't a big deal and as I think I said before, my adult students thought school uniform was more of a threat to human rights than identity cards!
I just find it bizarre that people are worried about illegal immigration but can't see the logic of a single, simple system for proving their identity, which works for the whole adult population in many areas of everyday life.

Mamie
I just find it bizarre that people are worried about illegal immigration but can't see the logic of a single, simple system for proving their identity, which works for the whole adult population in many areas of everyday life.

Yes. It makes sense.
But in the UK there are so many more reasons for not wanting them . . .

Mollygo

Mamie
I just find it bizarre that people are worried about illegal immigration but can't see the logic of a single, simple system for proving their identity, which works for the whole adult population in many areas of everyday life.

Yes. It makes sense.
But in the UK there are so many more reasons for not wanting them . . .

Do you think there is an age demographic to that Mollygo? I don't hear reasons against from younger members of my family. My adult grandchildren would be very happy to have one means of identification. It seems to me that the case needs to be made properly, explaining the advantages. The introduction of compulsory identification for voting would have been a good moment!

It would be a good thing to put to a public referendum because views are so polarised.

Calendargirl

^Britain is not the only European country to take in refugees, and we have not accepted the most^

But size wise, we are quite small compared to France, say.

Where are they all supposed to be housed, for a start?

Yes, true, France is 2.3 times the size of the UK and has over twice the number of refugees compared to UK.
Germany is only 1.5 the size of the UK, yet has 10 times the number of refugees.
Affordable housing could be built on Brown belt or Green belt areas, to house both our own homeless and refugees.
The amount of land taken up by homes and gardens across the UK is a little over 5%.

We don’t put everything to a referendum, and look how it turned out after the EU referendum. We elect a government to make choices/decisions for us. This wasn’t on the manifesto of any party as far as I am aware, so it seems highly unlikely that identity cards will be introduced, although stranger things have happened, because removing the WFA was not on Labour’s manifesto, but was rapidly introduced. That doesn’t change my mind though, nor Blair’s either, since he brought it up again recently. On this, he’s right.

What exactly is your objection to a referendum on this issue maddyone? That is surely the only way of ensuring that the decision is made by the public, rather than being imposed by any government on a population who for all we know may disagree with it. It’s a cross party issue. Rather than expecting a Labour government to make a fundamental decision as the Tories haven’t done it, thereby alienating themselves from a significant proportion of the population, why not put the idea to the public - unless you just think that’s one of the ways of getting Labour out of power.

I don’t have an objection to a referendum on this issue Casdon. I was just stating a fact, we don’t put everything to a referendum, because we don’t!
What on earth makes you say that I think it’s one way of getting Labour out of power? That’s a ridiculous thing to say, I can’t even imagine how you think that could even happen.

maddyfour

We don’t put everything to a referendum, and look how it turned out after the EU referendum.

What The Brexit referendum showed Was the people won’t accept the outcome, Even it’s a difference between yes and no, is over 1 million

There will undoubtedly be a huge lobby against the introduction of id cards, led by prominent ex politicians including Johnson and Farage who have both vociferously opposed them. If Labour were to attempt to introduce them now there would be such opposition that it could finish off the government, that’s why I wondered why you thought a referendum wasn’t a good idea maddyfour. I know there isn’t one frequently, it just seems to me that this is one of those very polarising areas where it would be the right thing to do.

Mollygo

maddyfour

We don’t put everything to a referendum, and look how it turned out after the EU referendum.

What The Brexit referendum showed Was the people won’t accept the outcome, Even it’s a difference between yes and no, is over 1 million

People not accepting the outcome is not a rationale not to do something though. What a referendum does is use the power of the public vote to demonstrate to those who disagree that they are in the minority - witness all the kicking and screaming about Brexit, people don’t like it, but they accept it has happened.
I’m interested to hear how people who don’t think a referendum is the way forward propose it should happen?

I agree with you, 25Avalon. A lot of people on here seem to be living in the past. We live in a totally different world to the one we grew up in. There are many amongst us who would see our way of life destroyed. I too fear for my grandchildren.

I would have thought a campaign to explain the advantages, followed by polling of all age groups including over-16s would be a start.

I actually would quite like a referendum on this issue, but as I stated before, we won’t be having one because it’s not the way things work in the UK. We have had referendums very rarely in this country, and as I said, the EU referendum has caused massive divisions in the country, sometimes even in families and still going on now. Very sad.
There won’t be a referendum any time soon. Although Blair was for identity cards, I’m not aware that our current government want them, nor did our last government, and so I expect it’s pointless discussing it, because it ain’t gonna happen!

petra

Donald Tusk ( he of the EU commission) has stated that he will not accept any EU ruling on immigration when it threatens his country’s security. How times have changed.

www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/10/12/polish-pm-says-he-wont-respect-eu-right-to-asylum-if-it-threatens-his-countrys-security

Absolutely this
With the threat of Isis and Al Qaeda rearing their ugly heads again, we need to be much more careful who we let into this country but it looks like we don’t have that choice. They just come and come and come.
I feel many will be genuine refugees, but many will not and will be here to do this country harm..

maddyfour

I actually would quite like a referendum on this issue, but as I stated before, we won’t be having one because it’s not the way things work in the UK. We have had referendums very rarely in this country, and as I said, the EU referendum has caused massive divisions in the country, sometimes even in families and still going on now. Very sad.
There won’t be a referendum any time soon. Although Blair was for identity cards, I’m not aware that our current government want them, nor did our last government, and so I expect it’s pointless discussing it, because it ain’t gonna happen!

Meanwhile people will continue to complain about migration to the UK, whilst presumably being aware that one of the reasons migrants chose to go there is that it is possible to live under the radar....

Shinamae

petra

Donald Tusk ( he of the EU commission) has stated that he will not accept any EU ruling on immigration when it threatens his country’s security. How times have changed.

www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/10/12/polish-pm-says-he-wont-respect-eu-right-to-asylum-if-it-threatens-his-countrys-security

Absolutely this
With the threat of Isis and Al Qaeda rearing their ugly heads again, we need to be much more careful who we let into this country but it looks like we don’t have that choice. They just come and come and come.
I feel many will be genuine refugees, but many will not and will be here to do this country harm..

Agreed. The Head of MI5 reported that the threat of terrorism in the UK is now 75% Islamist.

Mamie, I absolutely agree with you. It’s one of the reasons why I feel identity cards would be useful. Since everyone has them in France without a problem, I can’t see the problem here.
But as I said before, it’s not going to happen, certainly not anytime soon.

BevSec

Eggplant, gosh you are on the attack! We all know about the suppression of women under a regime like the Taliban. We all know that this country is not like that yet and I have made it very clear in previous posts that I worry about what the future holds for my granddaughters. You, I know, do not share that concern, regardless of how much illegal immigration is happening. From what I have read the actual numbers are being kept from us and downplayed from what they actually are. Many people I have spoken to share my concerns.

I definitely share your concern for my granddaughters too

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Exactly why I keep a lower profile on these threads nowadays. Some posters are goady then trigger happy to report. Echo chambers are so soothing aren’t they?

👏👏👏👏👏

Casdon
People not accepting the outcome is not a rationale not to do something though.
I agree, even though I voted remain.
I forget who posted about it being a generational thing, but certainly my DC and my DGC would be happy to have an ID card.

Sundowngirl, thank you for your post and your support.

sundowngirl

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Exactly why I keep a lower profile on these threads nowadays. Some posters are goady then trigger happy to report. Echo chambers are so soothing aren’t they?

👏👏👏👏👏

It’s difficult being a duck and paddling the opposite way 🦆🦆🦆🦆

I am going to use the ubiquitous some posters know the response/answer they are after, best ignored.

To those of you who think they had 14yrs to develop a plan, why didnt the tories have a plan? Rwanda was not a plan.

I think it's a fairly easy solution tbh

We rewrite immigration rules.

- Anyone coming over in a boat, without papers will be DNA tested and sent back to France who will be advised of tgeir ethnicity. Their faces will be included in facial recognition systems to match them if they try to reenter. They will have the of return cost on file and if they try to re-enter that debt becomes payable immediately which means they may be detained and put to work to pay the debt. They will them be returned to France.

Anyone entering not by boat with papers who claims assylum will be processed within a given time (I think 3 months is enough time) housed at an ex-military facility provided with basics ie food shelter, warm and where appropriate clothing but will not be given any money or other amenities. They left with no money and can therefore survive here with no money.
- Anyone found to have a criminal record will be deported. Faces included in facial recognition software so reentry that undetected is made difficult.
- Anyone found to carry disease that could be a burden on the nhs is to be disallowed entry (I couldn't go to Aussie because I'm diabetic)
- Once processed and assylum is approved, they remain but are required to regularly check in for a period of 7 years so that any matter that was not surfaced in the 3m processing can be found and dealt with eg new criminal charges.

- Anyone committing serious crimes in UK will be returned home with their faces in facial recognition and the debt for returning them home placed on their record. Any prison sentence to be served in their home country. The debt to be repaid immediately upon attempted reentry followed by immediate return and this cost added as a debt to their file.

Anyone else who wants to come here to work needs a sponsorship. We need immigrants to come and work here, but ffs we do not need trafficked people or those who think they will get an easy life here. They won't. We need to be more open to economic migration too, the current rules are a little excessive.

I'd love to hear others thoughts and solutions. I am the product of economic immigration btw, mixed race and proud of it. What I see is my country going down the pan because stupid people are coming over in droves, the French, who we are paying are doing naff all, but France is a safe country, so they can deal with the immigrants. Why should we?

Simple answer - we can't return people to France or indeed any other country without that countries permission.

Your idea of loading up planes and dumping people is not internationally viable. You are entering their sea or airspace. Practically, you cannot land a plane without permission.

These international rules have grown up because of war/invasion situations historically

but perhaps the simplest way of putting it is:

supposing another country just decided to load up boats or planes en masse and brought people to our country? Would you willingly let them land and offload people?