Should Justin Welby resign?

It feels like we are in a new era of , "reporting to police" or "reporting to authorities" is not enough any more.

We an no longer "trust" them to follow through.

It then comes back on the person who reported in the first place, for not pursuing further.

Or am I wrong?

That is not to say I am letting the Archbishop off the hook.
Far from it.

This was far far far too serious for him not to have pursued.

Safeguarding within organisations is not the same as reporting abuse as an individual. That's the whole point really. There should have been a clear policy which ensured that Smythe couldn't continue his abuse once it was suspected or reported. The safeguarding policy probably didn't exist when he started his abuse but it should certainly have been in place by 2013 (actually years before), every member of the organisation should have received training to ensure they knew their responsibilities. Welby should have been able to see a copy of the record of what had been done and at what stage it was. It's truly shocking.

Safeguarding in schools was introduced around 2000 ish, I believe? I remember returning to education in 2008 after a period abroad and was amazed and pleased to see how much had been put in place and how thorough policies had to be.
But how much certainty can we have that "things like that just wouldn't happen now"?

foxie48 - and what is supposed to happen if someone high up has reported something to the police?

What is the c of e procedure then?

I am not really supposing you know, but perhaps you do?

Something has happened where I volunteer. Nothing at all to do with abuse.
Lower level altogether.

But the rule book from high up has had to be changed.
The procedures will be different from now on.

Not of any use currently, to what is happening.
But should be of use if/when the same sort of thing happens elsewhere in the future.

fancythat

foxie48 - and what is supposed to happen if someone high up has reported something to the police?

What is the c of e procedure then?

I am not really supposing you know, but perhaps you do?

Sorry I don't know there's lots of info on the web regarding the Church of England's safeguarding policy etc but these will be up to date and I'm sure things have changed since 2013. What the procedure was in 2013 is anyone's guess but there will have been one.

My own personal policy would be to ensure that a sadistic sexual sadist didn't have access to carry on with vile practices.

So regardless of procedure, I certainly wouldn't think I'd done my bit by reporting, and leave it after that.

Me neither MissA.
Following through would be high on my agenda too.

What a world we live in, eh?
How those victims must feel doesn't bear thinking about.

Let's hope some good will come of all this, that in future children won't be frightened to speak up, victims will be believed and perpetrators will be reported to the police, prosecuted and receive an appropriate sentence.

There have been far too many head in the sand attitudes for far too long.

MissA that's my opinion too, I've never needed a policy to tell me when something is badly wrong and needs to be followed up on, however, a good policy ensures that everything is done correctly and in a timely way.

I read in the news on my phone earlier he has already resigned. I’ve never liked him

There are clearly huge flaws in their safeguarding, which is something that they have only recently come to take seriously. And the church has a problem in that they have a history of venerating suffering as part of their doctrine. I know that things have moved on a bit thank goodness, but that legacy of men using the power that the church gives them to do their evil will "in the name of god" hovers in the background. The whole salvation through suffering thread is still there.

I feel a bit sorry for Welby, not least because he is known to be under treatment for depression and this will be particularly difficult for him just now - but, although he was not the only one who could have done something and did not, he is the top honcho and he is right to resign.

And the Cof E needs to stop worrying about its image and start worrying about humanity and decency.

fancythat

Oreo

I’m just aghast that he wasn’t stopped by church authorities long before he died.Also surprised that he was married, I assumed he was single.

It would partly depend on who knew I presume.
And what they knew, or thought they knew.

I dont see being married or not had anything to do with anything.

In the case of someone [not church related] who looked at things online he shouldnt have, his girlfriend and family had no idea.
Their lives have been shattered.
And changed. For specific reasons, they[dont think the girlfriend wants to anyway] are not allowed contact.
The man has moved out of the local area.

Yes, I know someone who was caught like that. Banned by the courts from being alone with his own child afterwards by his own actions.

Idiot.

It happens. The wife/gf/family are always last to know. Nobody wants to believe that a person who they love would be capable of such terrible things.

fancythat

It feels like we are in a new era of , "reporting to police" or "reporting to authorities" is not enough any more.

We an no longer "trust" them to follow through.

It then comes back on the person who reported in the first place, for not pursuing further.

Or am I wrong?

Even the Police refer themselves to the Independant Office of Police misconduct, if they feel they have done wrong. This shows transparency of sorts.

Who do the Bishops refer themselves to?

00opsidia

fancythat

Oreo

I’m just aghast that he wasn’t stopped by church authorities long before he died.Also surprised that he was married, I assumed he was single.

It would partly depend on who knew I presume.
And what they knew, or thought they knew.

I dont see being married or not had anything to do with anything.

In the case of someone [not church related] who looked at things online he shouldnt have, his girlfriend and family had no idea.
Their lives have been shattered.
And changed. For specific reasons, they[dont think the girlfriend wants to anyway] are not allowed contact.
The man has moved out of the local area.

Yes, I know someone who was caught like that. Banned by the courts from being alone with his own child afterwards by his own actions.

Idiot.

It happens. The wife/gf/family are always last to know. Nobody wants to believe that a person who they love would be capable of such terrible things.

It’s important to remember that as OOpsidia says, it’s often (not always) the case that wives/girl friends and other loved ones genuinely did not know. It’s not only they who struggle to believe their loved one is capable of terrible things, its colleagues

I have no sympathy for JW. His comment that he wouldn’t resign ‘over this’ was shocking. It may have reflected his real beliefs here, that his friend and colleague hadn’t or wasn’t capable of the things alleged.
In his resignation statement , he asked for prayers for his wife and children. He failed to ask for prayers for the victims

@Iam64 Thanks, yes it is a common thing to be loyal and also to disbelieve anyone could be so awful, particularly someone who you love.

Time and time again we realise we have been let down, that we cannot judge others on our own standards.

I am a bt stunned that Justin Welby is married as he always looks so dour and dead in the eyes. I had assumed him a gay man as he seems so pro gay. He should have considered his wife and children much, much earlier and it is quite manipulative to ask people to pray for them as if we are bad for wanting him to resign. He is over retirement age and does not need the salary. He will be ok financially.

In failing to ask for prayers for the victims, he has shown again that he was not fit to be in such a trusted and spiritual position.

I feel sorry for his wife and children, but I did not know they existed until now. Perhaps they will disown him.

What a shocking post.

In his resignation statement , he asked for prayers for his wife and children. He failed to ask for prayers for the victims

Absolutely this Iam well said.

Archbishop Welby is committed to meeting each abused person. That’s quite a difficult task. It shows that he cares.

Does it??

ronib

Archbishop Welby is committed to meeting each abused person. That’s quite a difficult task. It shows that he cares.

If you were one of the abused, would you want to meet him though? I wouldn't.

It seems too little, too late. Why would he think that meeting him would ease their torment?

The victims want the bishops involved to resign.
Seems right.