Should Justin Welby resign?

I am in despair at Christianity at the moment. A friend of mine was a dedicated churchgoer and was involved with the many groups and events her church ran. She suffered from crippling anxiety all her life not helped by an uncaring husband. Sadly, she took her own life, at the age of 72, when she could no longer live in this world. Her church refused to hold her funeral there because she had committed a sin in their eyes by taking her life. It was as if she was soiled. We ended up at the local crematorium to say goodbye to her. At this moment I hate a religion that turns its back on a fellow worshiper who was in such despair that suicide was her best choice. No compassion, no caring was shown to her. Yes, Welby should go and now, along with all the other two-faced, despicable child abusers hiding behind the cloth.

Sarnia - that is dreadful

FGS why has this thread turned into an argument about religion, surely it's about safeguarding and the responsibility of those at the top of organisations acting swiftly and appropriately. Paedophiles and abusers gravitate to any organisation that gives them access to and control over children. Hospitals, schools, churches, scouts, sports clubs etc are prime targets. This horrible man,Smythe, is just the next in a long line of child abusers and Welby is just another person who didn't do the right thing to protect children but chose to protect his organisation instead. This is what we should be discussing. OH went to boarding school and although he wasn't a target he says a member of staff with a dodgy reputation suddenly left mid term, no police involved and who no doubt moved on to another school. This was in the 60's I had hoped things had changed, Welby knew in 2013 possibly well before and knew Smythe, IMO his position is untenable.

Well said foxie48!

From Michael Cohen in the Telegraph opinion this morning:

“ John Smyth was an appalling abuser of children and young men. His abuse was prolific, brutal and horrific. His victims were subjected to traumatic physical, sexual, psychological and spiritual attacks. The impact of that abuse is impossible to overstate and has permanently marked the lives of his victims”, explains the report. The horror took place over more than four decades and involved around 130 boys.

Some of the beatings took place in Smyth’s garden shed where eight boys received a total of 14,000 lashes, while another two were beaten 8000 times over three years. Jesus wept!

As to how much Justin Welby knew about all this, the report argues that, “it is most probable that he would have had at least a level of knowledge that John Smyth was of some concern” and “could and should” have reported what he knew. He didn’t, and although he’s admitted errors in his handling of this obscenity, he appears to believe that the fault lies elsewhere.”

I don't like witch hunts, especially when we can never know the full details and JW is known to suffer from depression. BUT .... he is the head of a huge organisation with so much power and he has to accept full responsibility for not dealing actively with this problem when he first learned about it. He must resign. I am sure there were many others who were equally culpable in not tackling this properly, but he is the head and should do the right thing.

I shudder at the sort of complacency that has allowed children and young people to suffer in order to try and prop up the image of the church - well that failed, didn't it? The image of the church is now tarnished beyond all hope and rightly so. Mind you, we all know the record of religious institutions in this regard. This is why I give them a wide berth, along with the many other hypocrisies.

Why did the parents of these badly damaged boys not go to the police? Surely the wounds were ample evidence for anyone to see?

ronib

Why did the parents of these badly damaged boys not go to the police? Surely the wounds were ample evidence for anyone to see?

Really? That's your take from this whole thing?

MissI my take is to try and look at the whole picture.

The fact that Welby did nothing raises an awful lot of questions.

He should be fired immediately.

He's always been a horrible piddly self-indulgent little man and always will be. Definitely needs a jolly good sacking!

I think Welby should have been sacked years ago anyway for colluding in the closing of churches during the pandemic when church going Christians needed their church and their vicar most.
Airy, spacious, well ventilated, aka draughty, often unheated and with more than enough room for social distancing (look at any village church on the average Sunday!) - but no, the heart was ripped out of the church in England and Wales and too many those who were churchgoers, disillusioned, have not gone back
When he was appointed many thought how good to have a person with experience of “the world”, of finance, of dealing with powerful people, with, or so I thought, a skill set to serve the CoE in the 21st century.
How wrong they/we were.

ronib

MissI my take is to try and look at the whole picture.

And looking at the whole picture still brings us round to the entire point of this thread, which is whether Welby should resign (or be sacked)!

TheWeirdo

He's always been a horrible piddly self-indulgent little man and always will be. Definitely needs a jolly good sacking!

@* The Weirdo* - and your reasons for this opinion?

Winchester College eventually cut all ties with Smyth but did not report back to the police. So how did the Headmaster at the time square this? Parents and teachers silent. How very strange.

And there's that other nasty little man, Reverend Canon Richard Hancock of St Peter’s Church, Dorset that stands by fox hunters/other animal murders. Evil beyond belief.

ronib

Why did the parents of these badly damaged boys not go to the police? Surely the wounds were ample evidence for anyone to see?

You have a point there.
I’ve already said that IMO he should be sacked if he won’t resign, but what about all the other people who knew?

The more I hear about this story the more I am repulsed!

So many people have failed these boys (now grown men) along the way.

I can only hope (I would normally add pray to that statement, but my faith is becoming rather wobbly at the moment) that a full in-depth investigation is conducted and that any found guilty or of covering up have the weight of the law brought down on them 🤬🤬🤬

mumofmadboys

Ftm420. It is good that the Church allows Muslims to use church buildings if they wish to. Inter faith dialogue is essential as we learn from each other and live in a multi faith society. I thank God that JW respects other religions.

I completely agree with you Mumofmadboys.. I think interfaith is crucial nowadays..

I would question why JW did nothing in this awful case.. It seems unbelievable that he would just ignore it.. If that proves to be the case I think he should be sacked..

When did Welby read the report on Smyth? 2013? When did the abuse occur? How was the report written? And many other questions.

loads of people must have known about it surely? it's horrifying
he apparently killed a 16 yo too

ronib

When did Welby read the report on Smyth? 2013? When did the abuse occur? How was the report written? And many other questions.

What struck me was an interview with a lawyer on breakfast TV this morning saying that abuse continued after 2013.

Justin Welby could have saved those boys, but chose to do nothing…

GG13 Welby had the opportunity to stop Smyth but Welby only became Archbishop in February 2013. For many years before 2013, Smyth was actually abusing. Did no one notice?

Is the media asking the right questions? Other organisations and people were involved and were very passive about the abuse.

If they did, and failed to act, then they should be held accountable, but that doesn't make an iota of difference to whether Wellby should still remain in his position.