The Farmers Fight

LizzieDrip

^it is worrying that some people equate levying IHT on a parents' house with that on a food-producing farm^

Allira if you read the thread, you will see that I’m not equating those two things.

You seem to be taking comments personally 🤔

LizzieDrip

^it is worrying that some people equate levying IHT on a parents' house with that on a food-producing farm^

Allira if you read the thread, you will see that I’m not equating those two things.

Ok Rosie, as I’m apparently ignorant, jealous and vindictive, please explain to me why farmers’ children deserve to inherit their parents’ farm more than my daughter deserves to inherit our family home.

So, those inheriting a farm are more deserving than those unable to inherit their parents’ home?

Oh, perhaps those kinds of statement, plus others, is why you assumed I meant you?

Apologies if that is not what you meant.

We were baby sitting our grandchildren in Cheshire/Shropshire area so our daughter could go and protest.
She came home a couple of hours ago exhilarated.
She said the camaraderie was incredible, it was a peaceful, respectful and hopefully effective march.

I hope and pray it helps, her very close friend spoke on GB news this morning, they are genuinely frightened for the future, they are such a wonderful hardworking young family but the farm will possibly end with them.

That's good to hear, Sago. Camaraderie is a fitting word. It isn't just camaraderie amongst farmers, its camaraderie in their community too. As the snow starts to fall around the country, who is it who helps spread salt on the roads or helps tow stranded cars out of ditches? Who is it who often helps move fallen trees? And all this on top of their 24/7 job.

LizzieDrip

^it is worrying that some people equate levying IHT on a parents' house with that on a food-producing farm^

Allira if you read the thread, you will see that I’m not equating those two things.

But you have! You've constantly said why should farmer families inherit IHT free while your daughter can't. You've taken glee in some farmers being unable to take advantage of the 7 year rule for gifts. At least be honest. You've shown not a smidgeon of understanding about a working farm being a very different proposition to a family home. GrannyGravy13 put you right about limited companies and their tax exemptions but still you've persevered, and didn't even acknowledge your lack of knowledge about limited companies.

mabon1

The farmers have forgotten how much they have bee subsidised since World War 11. How many other family businesses have had money thrown at them for 80 years?

Maybe if people were prepared to pay the price that food actually costs, eg paying a living wage across the world instead of depending on cheap labour to produce cheap food, there’d be no need for subsidies.

LizzieDrip

^The total ignorance to not understand the difference is astounding. I think much comes down to jealousy, some to the point of vindictiveness. There's precious little evidence of any cognitive understanding how farming and farms work. It's a unique business model that actually feeds us through hard relentless graft^

Ok Rosie, as I’m apparently ignorant, jealous and vindictive, please explain to me why farmers’ children deserve to inherit their parents’ farm more than my daughter deserves to inherit our family home.

I’m all ears - even in my ignorance, jealousy and vindictiveness.

The difference is, your dd doesn’t depend on inheriting your house to make a living. Take away part of a farm’s ability to make money (sell off the tractors, say, to pay the bill) and you take away the farmers livelihood.

SueDonim 👏👏👏
You wouldn't think it's such a hard concept to grasp, but there are so many that don't seem able to.

It's almost like farm land and successful farms can be conjured up and dropped anywhere.

I'm afraid I read it as a personal attack on Lizzie, Allira because Rosie51 said Your statement here demonstrates pure envy. I did read that as rather rude.

I personally do not think any family home should be exempt to be honest.

However if agricultural businesses are exempt (up to a level) I don't see why some other "public good" businesses are not.

Hope Aussie polls don't get wind of that tax or they'll jump on it first.

I think most people agree that those who claim to have “agricultural” land and avoid IHT should be clamped down on. Trouble is, this would include swathes of the countryside owned by landed gentry and aristocracy who own 30% of the UK land. They are using the “poor farmers” as a cover to avoid paying tax .

I wonder why those who do not support every farmer 100% are labelled “ jealous and vindictive”? Jealous of what exactly? Maybe those multi millionaire landowners who owns swathes of land, huge houses with no mortgage, expensive cars, horses and ponies for the kids, rent out their land to poor tenant farmers ( those are the ones we really should support) are the ones to get hit and rightly so. Having Jeremy Clarkson and Nigel Farage in his wellies and Barbour jacket as poster boys is doing the really struggling no favours.

Farage in a Barbour jacket and wellies in London !

I certainly do not support every farmer

SueDonim

LizzieDrip

The total ignorance to not understand the difference is astounding. I think much comes down to jealousy, some to the point of vindictiveness. There's precious little evidence of any cognitive understanding how farming and farms work. It's a unique business model that actually feeds us through hard relentless graft

Ok Rosie, as I’m apparently ignorant, jealous and vindictive, please explain to me why farmers’ children deserve to inherit their parents’ farm more than my daughter deserves to inherit our family home.

I’m all ears - even in my ignorance, jealousy and vindictiveness.

The difference is, your dd doesn’t depend on inheriting your house to make a living. Take away part of a farm’s ability to make money (sell off the tractors, say, to pay the bill) and you take away the farmers livelihood.

I don't know about other family businesses and their tax situation but it isn't only farmers' children who need to inherit the home if they want to carry on the business and make a living. Thinking of a family I know who live in a big house that is home to a number of people with learning difficulties. If the family have to sell the home off to pay taxes not only will their children be homeless without an income but the people they have cared for for years will also be homeless.

I don't know if the changes affect them.

Why are the rich to blame for ‘ethnically cleansing’ the countryside of farmers?
Those who want to protect farmers should consider the damage being wrought by TV presenters looking to escape IHT.
Jeremy Clarkson accused the government of having a “sinister plan” to “ethnically cleanse” the British countryside of farmers earlier this month – but the real culprits are tax-reducing millionaires such as himself.
Data collected by property consultants Strutt & Parker show farmers are increasingly being squeezed out of the agricultural land market by wealthy investors.
While non-farmers were responsible for less than a third of farmland purchases in 2010, by last year this had risen to 56 per cent.
The findings coincide with data that shows in the last year alone, 400,000 hectares (988,422 acres) of agricultural land has been taken out of use for farming.
The analysis links this to financial advice that recommends potential tax breaks of investing in farmland, which by his own admission, is precisely why Clarkson got involved.
Those wanting greater protections for farmers should consider the damage being wrought by TV presenters looking to escape IHT!

(borrowed with permission).

So, what did farmers do before 1984 when they had to pay inheritance tax?

Allira

LizzieDrip

The total ignorance to not understand the difference is astounding. I think much comes down to jealousy, some to the point of vindictiveness. There's precious little evidence of any cognitive understanding how farming and farms work. It's a unique business model that actually feeds us through hard relentless graft

Ok Rosie, as I’m apparently ignorant, jealous and vindictive, please explain to me why farmers’ children deserve to inherit their parents’ farm more than my daughter deserves to inherit our family home.

I’m all ears - even in my ignorance, jealousy and vindictiveness.

If you don't understand, even after reading the thread, watching the news, reading reports (🤔) then there is just no point in trying to explain.

Most of us do know the difference. But many here don't seem to know the difference with real farmers, and those who bought masses of land just as investment, to avoid paying IHT.

As the post above explains, very few real farmers will be affected- up to 3 million exempt. And if family want to continue, all they have is to put in Trust.

It is totally possible to support our farmers, but with the facts in the open- and to decry the likes of Clarkson, Farage and others- who treat farming as just another opportunity to avoid Tax. Not Tax 'to the Goverment' as Clarkson says, but to education, health, social service, care for the infirm and elderly, roads, environment, security, police, army, and so much more.

Anniebach

Farage in a Barbour jacket and wellies in London !

I certainly do not support every farmer

And Clarkson. Wasn’t it Clarkson who said a while back that he’d bought land as a tax avoidance scheme? Was Dyson there, too?

MayBee70

So, what did farmers do before 1984 when they had to pay inheritance tax?

I was wondering that as well. Why didn't they all disappear?

In 1984 you could work hard and make enough to buy land, it was related to its productive capability.

Now very little spare cash from growing food and land prices are very high, some farmers have good diversified enterprises that are profitable, others are selling land for housing. If you have only farming income you are slowly sinking because you cannot reinvest.

The fact remains growing food is not profitable, whatever the value of land.

Anyone who wants to support farmers should stop buying fresh produce from supermarkets. End of!

Some of us have no choice. We can't all get to fashionable little farm shops.

Paul Cheshire, emeritus professor of Economic Geography at the London School of Economics, has pushed back strongly on Bradshaw’s assertions in response.

He said:

“The inheritance tax loophole on farmland, introduced in 1984, simply pushed up the price of land without improving returns to active farmers.

“This is because, like most agricultural subsidies, the value of the relief was capitalised into land values. As tax planners cottoned on to its role as a licence to avoid IHT, they advised their super-rich clients to buy land and take advantage of it. In the 20 years to 2012, the price of farmland increased fourfold.

“This turned landowning farmers into millionaires but — especially since land represents a cost of production — did no good to the incomes of food producers. It created impoverished millionaires who claimed a need for more support. At the same time, because more expensive land had to be squeezed even harder for the last drop of revenue, the environmental damage caused by intensive agriculture was made worse. Taking at least some of this tax loophole away will do no harm to family farmers but will help both public revenues and the environment.'

Yes, it will reduce the price of farmland, so it can remain in 'proper'farming hands, those we all want to support.

The massive elephant in the room here, is, yet again, Brexit. Which farmers voted for in very large numbers- as they were lied to, again. Same as fishermen.

It's a unique business model that actually feeds us through hard relentless graft

Being a bus driver is relentless hard graft. But they don't have Farage in his Barbour or the cheery camaraderie of their friends.

Not only did farmers vote for Brexit but they encouraged others to do so too by putting huge vote leave placards on their land.