The Farmers Fight

Casdon

I wonder if they realise how different the culture is in France? I watched this yesterday, and I found it an eye opener to understand the differences. It’s very accessible, a lady our age explains how it works there and what they do to mitigate the effects of strikes.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y43_K759D6I

Interesting, thanks, Casdon but very superficial. The lady I mean, not you! She's really just talking about her shopping habits in her very limited experience of France.
She's one of many Brits I know who moved to the middle of nowhere in Brittany and aren't really living the life most French people do.
There was no real, in-depth discussion about French farmers' protests - how they get their message across, how the government responds to the pressure, how French farmers attack property, how the use their animals (sometimes cruelly) as part of the protest, how destruction of products is symbolic of the ruin of the farming industry, how farmers are powerful for historical reasons etc etc.

The quote from FGT's French farming representative says it well, We have a lot of form when it comes to more radical forms of protest.

mae13

Is the farmers protest about the proposed Inheritance Tax? Or is it all about "farmer" Jeremy Clarkson? He seems to have gained an awful lot of publicity out of it.
When did the NFU appoint him the Patron Saint of all things farming?

When his voice spoke up for them. Good on him.

Oops Good not Todd 🤷‍♀️

mae13

Is the farmers protest about the proposed Inheritance Tax? Or is it all about "farmer" Jeremy Clarkson? He seems to have gained an awful lot of publicity out of it.
When did the NFU appoint him the Patron Saint of all things farming?

Jeremy Clarkson is using his high public profile to highlight the farmers plight.

Todd on him 👏👏👏

Is the farmers protest about the proposed Inheritance Tax? Or is it all about "farmer" Jeremy Clarkson? He seems to have gained an awful lot of publicity out of it.
When did the NFU appoint him the Patron Saint of all things farming?

I’m not bitter and twisted - pointing out that changes will affect a small number of wealthy farms - some of whom buy land in order to dodge tax. Needs pointing out. I’m not sure what soy production has to do with it - you do know of course that most of the soy grown in deforested areas is grown to feed animals who are reared in horrible industrial complexes. I’m on the side of really small farmers who won’t be affected by IHT and who are badly treated by big landlords. We all know the really wealthy don’t pay IHT - why doesn’t King Charles or The Duke of Westminster pay IHT?

Allira

merlotgran

Such bitter and twisted posts from vegansrock

I've tried to point out the problems with soy production.

No point.
In fact, is there any point to GN at all?

A load of people arguing online? Really, what a waste of time it all is.

When did vr talk of soy production? I've been back to p2 and can't find it. Was it on p1?

Some call it arguing, some call it debating. I think it's useful to try to clarify ones own thinking. It's interesting, if sometimes maddening, to see how other people think, too.

Thanks 🙂

It's all quite depressing at the moment.

Allira

merlotgran

Such bitter and twisted posts from vegansrock

I've tried to point out the problems with soy production.

No point.
In fact, is there any point to GN at all?

A load of people arguing online? Really, what a waste of time it all is.

Allira there are none so blind as those who will not see. Sadly that happens a lot on news and politics on GN which is why so many don’t post on that forum.There are lots of other forums to post on which you may find have more point.

MaizieD

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Possibly some of it was due to payments from the EU for ‘set aside’. Daft idea really surely to let fields lie fallow or with wildflowers? The French can now sell US their produce instead? Win win for them? Short termism for the UK. We ought to produce as much as possible to feed ourselves? Plus keep the carbon footprint down?

Don't be silly. Set Aside applied to all farms across the EU. The idea was to prevent over production.

We ought to produce as much as possible to feed ourselves

Yes, of course, but we aren't going to lose production if small farms sell out to larger units "landlords" who continue to farm the land.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Possibly some of it was due to payments from the EU for ‘set aside’. Daft idea really surely to let fields lie fallow or with wildflowers? The French can now sell US their produce instead? Win win for them? Short termism for the UK. We ought to produce as much as possible to feed ourselves? Plus keep the carbon footprint down?

Don't be silly. Set Aside applied to all farms across the EU. The idea was to prevent over production.

I wonder if they realise how different the culture is in France? I watched this yesterday, and I found it an eye opener to understand the differences. It’s very accessible, a lady our age explains how it works there and what they do to mitigate the effects of strikes.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y43_K759D6I

Militant French farmers are offering to show their British counterparts how it’s done as they take to the streets over the Government’s inheritance tax raid.

French farmers have dumped manure and blocked roads in their latest round of protests this week, this time against the Mercosur trade deal between the EU and South American countries.

Serge Bousquet-Chassagne, the head of the militant Coordination Rurale union in the southwestern Lot-et-Garonne region, said he was happy to offer tips to British farmers.

“I’m prepared to receive my British farmer colleagues or to travel over there to lend a hand,” he said. “We have a lot of form when it comes to more radical forms of protest. We’re all in the same boat.”

I only realised from above post, those having to pay have 10 years interest free to pay.

I agree above that relief is needed for a small number, but frankly, most landowners will be paying 20% instead of 40% IT and it still makes it a good place to park investment money.

Another issue we've also discussed above is the idea "it will all go on solar farms and houses" Myth.

Yes, some land will go to housing, but we've already looked upthread at the fact most farms are bought up by larger food-producing units/farming conglomerates and continue to produce food.

Agricultural land is overpriced because it has been bought by wealthy people to avoid IHT. Locally an acre of pretty poor land has been selling for between 10-12.5K, it's only suitable for grazing so if you look at the what is generated for grazing store cattle, sheep etc it's obvious that you'd be better putting your money in the bank because it's a pittance. If by taking the IHT benefit out of land ownership it brings land prices back to a sensible level it will do two things. Firstly it will mean proper farmers will be able to afford land ATM they are priced out by speculators or people wanting to pass on wealth without incurring IHT, secondly the value of their farms will come within the limits of the new IHT rules. Farmers who genuinely wish to pass their farms on to their children to continue farming won't mind at all as they never realise the value of land ownership. Farmers without heirs wishing to take on their land will be less pleased but they'll still be paying a lot less IHT than the rest of the population. I own some land, actually in the process of selling some to a local farmer who wants to take advantage of one of the new land stewardship grants and I have a patch of land that would suit him nicely. If we agree on a price I will pay CGT at 40% but I don't mind paying taxes.

NotSpaghetti

Terribull - lots of these people have acquired land precisely because of the previous 0% tax!

Exactly !
All fami.y farmers need to do is pass the farm on in good time to their would-be heirs.

merlotgran

Such bitter and twisted posts from vegansrock

I've tried to point out the problems with soy production.

No point.
In fact, is there any point to GN at all?

A load of people arguing online? Really, what a waste of time it all is.

Such bitter and twisted posts from vegansrock

Oh dear what?

Other groups who protest are despised for preventing ambulances from getting through or causing violence.

vegansrock

All those farmers pleading poverty with their £3million land- how many are there? If it’s so unprofitable they should sell the land and live off the £3 million. The really poor farmers are those who rent their land - IHT will not affect them. The farmers near my sister in Norfolk all seem to have large cars, their kids have ponies and go to private school - oh and now they have to pay more school fees. No I don’t feel sorry for them. I do feel sorry for the really har£ up group having to rent their land from tax dodging landowners.

Oh dear!

Jeanathome

*Why is holding up traffic, causing a public nuisance, dumping cow-shit in Downing Street something to applaud?*

I don't know?

Because it would show that farmers are passionate, and proud about farming and food production. They don't want to see the sector destroyed for future generations.

No one was really encouraging the actual dumping of cow shit in Downing Street, though it's an image that would undoubtedly get a lot of public support!

All those farmers pleading poverty with their £3million land- how many are there? If it’s so unprofitable they should sell the land and live off the £3 million. The really poor farmers are those who rent their land - IHT will not affect them. The farmers near my sister in Norfolk all seem to have large cars, their kids have ponies and go to private school - oh and now they have to pay more school fees. No I don’t feel sorry for them. I do feel sorry for the really har£ up group having to rent their land from tax dodging landowners.

SueDonim

You won't convince some on here.

My DGS doesn't want to farm, thank goodness; he has probably seen the toll the work and stress takes on his parents.

Why is holding up traffic, causing a public nuisance, dumping cow-shit in Downing Street something to applaud?

I don't know?

My son-in-law is a farmer. His dad has just about given up any farm work now so SIL is running a 300 acre arable farm by himself. That’s why he earns just above minimum wage and often his children don’t see him from Mon-Fri because he’s at work constantly (his parents live in the farm house, he and my dd live elsewhere). They never have a summer holiday because he can’t take time off work then. It’s true that he knew that those were the T&C’s when he decided to return home to help his dad run the farm but the same can be said for other lines of work but conditions have been improved, rightly so.

I really don’t know how farmers can have low living costs - my dd & sil pay the same for their food as anyone else, the children’s nursery fees are the same cost, they pay Council Tax and utilities bills just like everyone else. As for Range Rovers, don’t make me laugh. The farm has three or four cars. My SIL drives the newest - a 2017-reg Ford Focus.

I also don’t understand how that BBC article arrives at the value of farms. Does farm equipment not count towards assets? A combine harvester alone costs upwards of £750k! My sil has managed to share that cost of that with another farm and of course, it’s bought with finance because most farmers don’t have a cool three quarters of a million in the piggy bank.

My little GS wants to farm, too, but maybe the best he’ll achieve will be as a hired hand on a conglomerate farm. Those farms won’t care about the countryside, they’ll just want to screw the most out of the land and as others have said, sell it for solar farms and housing.