The Farmers Fight

Casdon

Because you put a spin on it Allira.

‘communism, political and economic doctrine that aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production and the natural resources of a society.’
27 Oct 2024
www.britannica.com
That is how communist countries operate, the model of leadership is what causes conflict.

Bollox.

Me too ronib. There are no peasants in the UK, it’s a feudal term.

Iam64

This government is a million miles from communism. MaizieD’s response, questioning whether socialism can be applied is reasonable (even though I’m a supporter if this govt)

No, it's not communist in its leanings.

Jeremy Corbyn was nearer to the ethos than this Government.

Should I bow to your superior knowledge about communism Allira?

Casdon I think that small acreage farmers are roughly equivalent to peasant farmers in feudal times. Certainly now that 20 percent will go on inheritance taxes.

Casdon

Should I bow to your superior knowledge about communism Allira?

I'll ignore your goading.

Smallholders would be nearer to peasant farmers than farmers with a small acreage, but neither bear any real resemblance because we don’t have a feudal society?
Small farmers will not be paying 20% on inheritance taxes either, because their farms don’t qualify.

Allira

Casdon

Should I bow to your superior knowledge about communism Allira?

I'll ignore your goading.

Up to you, I’m happy to have a detailed discussion about what constitutes a communist country if you want to. It wasn’t me who swore however.

Casdon it sure feels feudal …..

ronib

Family farms will be sold and the small peasant farmer will be no more.

That's still not communism, ronib, that's reality in the economic regime we currently live under.

Under communism all property was taken over by the state. In the UK under the current economic regime, which Labour has no apparent interest in changing, the 'peasant farms', as you so charmingly call them, will be purchased by very wealthy people either to enjoy being 'landed gentry' or to farm intensively so as to make a profit. That is naked capitalism.

I expect they'll still buy it because halfbaked ITH, at half the normal rate and with 10 years to pay it, instead of the usual 6 months, might still look like quite an attractive tax dodge.

I'm curious to know what 'history you actually studied, because you certainly have a very strange idea of what constitutes 'communism.

ronib

Casdon it sure feels feudal …..

How does it feel 'feudal'?

The nearest we've got to 'feudal', and even that's a million miles away, is tenant farmers and no-one is the least bit concerned about them...

Feudal society - first year undergraduate module- Bloch sticks in my subconscious MaizieD. But it was a very long time ago.
What are you talking about? Labour has no interest in change ? I thought that was their core doctrine. They just forgot to tell us before the election was won.
The petition now stands at over 1.5 million - well it’s a nice idea but going nowhere.

What are you talking about? Labour has no interest in change ?

Oh, FGS, stop taking things out of context. My actual words were " In the UK under the current economic regime, which Labour has no apparent interest in changing,"

If you'd done a first year module in economics you might have an inkling of what I am talking about.

MaizieD oh yes I did a first year module in economics and it was completely incomprehensible.
We honestly don’t have a clue as to what Labour will or won’t change in the next four and a half years. The manifesto did not mention the changes to inheritance tax on small farmers for example. Labour really does have absolute power.

MaizieD

ronib

Casdon it sure feels feudal …..

How does it feel 'feudal'?

The nearest we've got to 'feudal', and even that's a million miles away, is tenant farmers and no-one is the least bit concerned about them...

Feudal? peasant farmers ?!

Elijah who runs the farm I’m most familiar with runs sheep and cattle on his moorland. He doesn’t drive a Ferrari he drives an ancient Land Rover. He has working sheep dogs,
I suspect he’d be well pi***d off to be called a peasant

Iam64 I am proud of my peasant farmer ancestors . It’s all a case of perception.

ronib

Iam64 I am proud of my peasant farmer ancestors . It’s all a case of perception.

Peasant may actually have been landowners.

Many or even most people had Ag. Labs. in their ancestry.

I’m proud of my working class mill worker ancestors. They were agricultural workers/ie peasants before agricultural work dried up and they walked north to the dark satanic mills.

On the hypocrisy of Clarkson. Borrowed from the 'I see you' site

I see you, Jeremy Clarkson.

This is nice, isn’t it? I always knew you’d come around to the power of a peaceful protest eventually. People always do, once the oppressive government machine finally turns its covetous eye on them. First they spent fourteen years coming for the working poor, the nurses, the teachers, the chronically ill, and the disabled benefits claimants. And you said very little, beyond the occasional sarcastic comment about the welfare state, because you were too busy earning obscene amounts of money for filming the Grand Tour.

Then they came for a comparatively small portion of your multi-million pound estate, and all of a sudden you were animated enough to jump straight onto a tractor and trundle down to Whitehall. Still, it’s great to see you finally embracing the true spirit of our democracy. The man who so vocally despises Just Stop Oil for being so melodramatic over a trivial little issue like the entire planet burning, now a Damascene convert to the power of taking to the streets.

And all it took was a Labour government making some vague moves towards taxing the very wealthiest. Quite the coincidence, isn’t it? Still, the very suggestion that there’s anything self-serving about your appearance at these protests is deeply offensive. How dare Victoria Derbyshire, with her typical woke BBC attitude and leftwing agenda, twist the truth by confronting you with your own words?

You’re a professional s*it-talker, Jeremy Clarkson. You can’t be held accountable for the amount of chaff you’ve thrown out in years gone by, even if said chaff included a direct confession that your entire purchase of all that farmland was one giant tax dodge. It’s sixth form politics, expecting public figures to be held accountable for the things they’ve literally said out loud and then had recorded in various newspaper columns. Accurate fact checks have a liberal bias and it’s most unreasonable.

The irony - that the grand old contrarian who has spent so many years railing against emotive and virtue signalling protest movements that strip all complexity and nuance out of a debate - should be reduced to this. Pulling figures out of thin air as he tries to publicly discredit his old employer for having the nerve to quote his own words back to him. Mugging to a crowd and claiming ’96% of them’ are going to be affected by these changes. They’re just not, and it’s patently absurd to claim otherwise.

There may well be a disconnect between the government’s estimates and the true reality on the ground for the number of farmers who will be affected by these changes. That’s worth debating and looking at more closely to ensure the changes have been properly thought through. But how, exactly, is your deliberately hyperbolic overestimate any more helpful to the debate than any potential miscalculation on Labour’s part? It’s inflammatory and performative nonsense, obfuscating the facts behind a cloud of angry Daily Express headlines.

True, a good few farmers on the cusp of this new IHT threshold are going to have do some tedious financial planning to ensure they’re using as many of the numerous loopholes and exemptions as possible. It’s a layer of extra bureaucracy they could probably do without, but let’s be realistic here. Most of them won’t be paying anything on estates worth closer to 1.5 million, and the ones sensible enough to fork over a few quid to a competent accountant closer to three.

Those are not insignificant sums of money, and nobody else looking to pass on that much gets anywhere near their level of discounts and exemptions. Do farmers deserve more support, in the face of their EU subsidies melting away and the increasingly predatory practices of the supermarket monopolies? Absolutely. But they are absolutely not supported by continuing with a broken inheritance tax system that incentivises super-rich landowners to hoard and bank vast swathes of agricultural land.

Removing those incentives has to happen, ironically enough to drive down the overly inflated value of workable land and make farming more affordable for people genuinely putting the hours in. If it doesn’t, every field will end up getting hoovered up by some Dyson or viscount or Nigel Farage, who as far as I can see farms nothing but online outrage. That outcome is no more desirable than the mass corporatisation of British farming that these protests are warning about.
Unless, of course, incredibly wealthy landowners like you don’t actually want to see the land value of their estates come down.

That couldn’t be it, could it?

Thanks Fleurpepper👏👏👏

Fleurpepper what is the ‘I see you’ site? Sounds like something I’d like to read.

Who is the anonymous person who wrote this? It would be interesting to know.

Have you ever watched any of Clarkson's Farm Fleurpepper? 🤔

He has consistently shone a light on the problems farmers with smaller farms face in this country.

It strikes me there are several posters on here who know little about farming.

LizzieDrip

Fleurpepper what is the ‘I see you’ site? Sounds like something I’d like to read.

😂

Why funny Allira?

Possibly not funny at all, actually, if those type of sites are anything to go by.