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The Farmers Fight

(793 Posts)
Sarnia Mon 18-Nov-24 08:46:41

Infuriated farmers will be protesting against Labour's 'Tractor Tax' opposite Downing Street tomorrow. They are being asked not to bring farm machinery but I hope they clutter up Whitehall with every tractor and combine harvester they can lay their hands on. Reeves claims 'only' 20% of farms will be affected by her latest smash and grab raid but economists say it is nearer 70%. Has it not figured in her brain that if farmers, who already struggle to make ends meet, chuck in the towel, there will be a serious food shortage?

HousePlantQueen Mon 25-Nov-24 13:17:57

Fleurpepper

On the hypocrisy of Clarkson. Borrowed from the 'I see you' site

I see you, Jeremy Clarkson.

This is nice, isn’t it? I always knew you’d come around to the power of a peaceful protest eventually. People always do, once the oppressive government machine finally turns its covetous eye on them. First they spent fourteen years coming for the working poor, the nurses, the teachers, the chronically ill, and the disabled benefits claimants. And you said very little, beyond the occasional sarcastic comment about the welfare state, because you were too busy earning obscene amounts of money for filming the Grand Tour.

Then they came for a comparatively small portion of your multi-million pound estate, and all of a sudden you were animated enough to jump straight onto a tractor and trundle down to Whitehall. Still, it’s great to see you finally embracing the true spirit of our democracy. The man who so vocally despises Just Stop Oil for being so melodramatic over a trivial little issue like the entire planet burning, now a Damascene convert to the power of taking to the streets.

And all it took was a Labour government making some vague moves towards taxing the very wealthiest. Quite the coincidence, isn’t it? Still, the very suggestion that there’s anything self-serving about your appearance at these protests is deeply offensive. How dare Victoria Derbyshire, with her typical woke BBC attitude and leftwing agenda, twist the truth by confronting you with your own words?

You’re a professional s*it-talker, Jeremy Clarkson. You can’t be held accountable for the amount of chaff you’ve thrown out in years gone by, even if said chaff included a direct confession that your entire purchase of all that farmland was one giant tax dodge. It’s sixth form politics, expecting public figures to be held accountable for the things they’ve literally said out loud and then had recorded in various newspaper columns. Accurate fact checks have a liberal bias and it’s most unreasonable.

The irony - that the grand old contrarian who has spent so many years railing against emotive and virtue signalling protest movements that strip all complexity and nuance out of a debate - should be reduced to this. Pulling figures out of thin air as he tries to publicly discredit his old employer for having the nerve to quote his own words back to him. Mugging to a crowd and claiming ’96% of them’ are going to be affected by these changes. They’re just not, and it’s patently absurd to claim otherwise.

There may well be a disconnect between the government’s estimates and the true reality on the ground for the number of farmers who will be affected by these changes. That’s worth debating and looking at more closely to ensure the changes have been properly thought through. But how, exactly, is your deliberately hyperbolic overestimate any more helpful to the debate than any potential miscalculation on Labour’s part? It’s inflammatory and performative nonsense, obfuscating the facts behind a cloud of angry Daily Express headlines.

True, a good few farmers on the cusp of this new IHT threshold are going to have do some tedious financial planning to ensure they’re using as many of the numerous loopholes and exemptions as possible. It’s a layer of extra bureaucracy they could probably do without, but let’s be realistic here. Most of them won’t be paying anything on estates worth closer to 1.5 million, and the ones sensible enough to fork over a few quid to a competent accountant closer to three.

Those are not insignificant sums of money, and nobody else looking to pass on that much gets anywhere near their level of discounts and exemptions. Do farmers deserve more support, in the face of their EU subsidies melting away and the increasingly predatory practices of the supermarket monopolies? Absolutely. But they are absolutely not supported by continuing with a broken inheritance tax system that incentivises super-rich landowners to hoard and bank vast swathes of agricultural land.

Removing those incentives has to happen, ironically enough to drive down the overly inflated value of workable land and make farming more affordable for people genuinely putting the hours in. If it doesn’t, every field will end up getting hoovered up by some Dyson or viscount or Nigel Farage, who as far as I can see farms nothing but online outrage. That outcome is no more desirable than the mass corporatisation of British farming that these protests are warning about.
Unless, of course, incredibly wealthy landowners like you don’t actually want to see the land value of their estates come down.

*That couldn’t be it, could it?*

Oh, how |I agree with this post. I get truly irritated when anti-Labour posters lump the 'poor farmers' and pensioners losing their WFA together.

In recent years, I have spoken too two local farmers who own the bulk of the land around here. The first, a staunch Brexit supporter, was boasting that his biggest earner was the car boot sales. The second, I initially felt a little sorry for as he was telling me about his wife having to take second job to make ends meet. The 'ends' were school fees for the local independent school.

I know these are not typical of all farmers, but my experience of the two people who own all farming land around here.

Rosie51 Mon 25-Nov-24 15:08:03

HPQ are you friends with these two landowner farmers that they share such details of their lives with you? If the wife works two jobs to pay independent school fees then she's working hard to maintain the education she wants for her child/children. That suggests commitment not wealth to me.

NotSpaghetti Mon 25-Nov-24 15:13:25

This won't help us feel sorry for them:

thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/who%E2%80%99s-the-prat-in-tenbury-wells.418847/

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/nov/25/police-investigate-tractor-that-created-devastating-wave-in-flood-hit-uk-town

Rosie51 Mon 25-Nov-24 15:23:31

What an absolute idiot! No reason to condemn all farmers though. I thought we were told often enough not to tar whole groups for the actions of one member.

David49 Mon 25-Nov-24 15:58:40

Clarkson bought his farm recently presumably with cash that he has paid taxation on legally if he sells it there will be little if any CGT, more likely the value will have fallen because of the IHT rules
He has the option now if gifting all or part of it, as all of us do, he looks pretty healthy and will likely last 7yrs. He earned his money not inherited it and can spend it however he wants, anyone who thinks otherwise is just envious.
He does speak up on behalf of real farmers, his Clarkson Farm series is a pretty accurate portrayal of the challenges farmers face for real, in addition most farmers don’t have the financial that he obviously has.

HousePlantQueen Mon 25-Nov-24 16:06:29

Rosie51

HPQ are you friends with these two landowner farmers that they share such details of their lives with you? If the wife works two jobs to pay independent school fees then she's working hard to maintain the education she wants for her child/children. That suggests commitment not wealth to me.

I met both people at a mutual friend's dinner, one of them was once my landlord (small business units on his "farm"), the other I knew through our children being at the same nursery. Is that OK?

NotSpaghetti Mon 25-Nov-24 16:08:11

I know.
But not good timing Rosie!

Allira Mon 25-Nov-24 16:09:30

David49

Clarkson bought his farm recently presumably with cash that he has paid taxation on legally if he sells it there will be little if any CGT, more likely the value will have fallen because of the IHT rules
He has the option now if gifting all or part of it, as all of us do, he looks pretty healthy and will likely last 7yrs. He earned his money not inherited it and can spend it however he wants, anyone who thinks otherwise is just envious.
He does speak up on behalf of real farmers, his Clarkson Farm series is a pretty accurate portrayal of the challenges farmers face for real, in addition most farmers don’t have the financial that he obviously has.

I know it won't happen but I'd like to think he left his farm to Kaleb!

David49 Mon 25-Nov-24 16:11:00

I’m sure Kaleb is well paid he can buy his own farm.

escaped Mon 25-Nov-24 16:13:02

The second farmer, I initially felt a little sorry for as he was telling me about his wife having to take a second job to make ends meet. The 'ends' were school fees for the local independent school.
Perhaps it needs to be explained that many farmers choose a private education for their children for several reasons. The main one being that farming families cannot take time off work during July - October, so they take their children away at other times during the school year. Independent schools do not fine them for doing this. Independent schools provide the children with plwnty of work so they don't fall behind. Independent schools have traditionally always had good working partnerships with farming families. So the farmer's wife being sneered at for working hard in irder to afford school fees, is actually to be admired.

Allira Mon 25-Nov-24 16:14:24

Rosie51

What an absolute idiot! No reason to condemn all farmers though. I thought we were told often enough not to tar whole groups for the actions of one member.

There's always a local idiot.

This won't help us feel sorry for them

us and them is irrelevant, not all farmers should be tarred with the same brush as that irresponsible person.

Elegran Mon 25-Nov-24 16:15:05

Seen online. This can presumably be checked in official data. I don't have time to check it right now, but I am sure someone has.

escaped Mon 25-Nov-24 16:15:10

HousePlantQueen

Rosie51

HPQ are you friends with these two landowner farmers that they share such details of their lives with you? If the wife works two jobs to pay independent school fees then she's working hard to maintain the education she wants for her child/children. That suggests commitment not wealth to me.

I met both people at a mutual friend's dinner, one of them was once my landlord (small business units on his "farm"), the other I knew through our children being at the same nursery. Is that OK?

And I've welcomed many farming families who've put their children through an independent school for many years.

Allira Mon 25-Nov-24 16:18:27

I know women who taught at the comprehensive school which my DC attended, they said taught there to enable them to pay the independent school fees for their own children.

Cossy Mon 25-Nov-24 17:16:35

MayBee70

'Through the hoo-ha over farmer’s inheritance tax (IHT), here is what you need to know…
“A third of all farmland in the UK is farmed by tenant farmers like my friend (and everybody he knows around here), who'll be completely unaffected by the IHT changes.
“So who will be affected by the IHT changes? From April 2026, taxes will apply to agricultural assets over £1 million (or up to £3 million in certain circumstances). Here's an explainer:
lordslibrary.parliament.uk/budget-2024.../
“Three things are worth noting: Firstly, any transfer of assets more than seven years before death is outside the scope of IHT. Secondly, the tax isn't a one-off sum - it's payable over a 10 year period, interest free.
“And this third point is very significant: we have evidence the rich are deliberately investing their money in land to avoid paying IHT. Jeremy Clarkson himself admitted that was why he bought so much land in an interview with the Times back in 2021.
“How big a problem is this? Well, almost half of all farms have less than 20 hectares of land. Incredibly, though, the average UK farm is 82 hectares - a staggeringly high sum that indicates how much land is owned by a minority.
“To give a sense of comparison? Jeremy Clarkson purchased a whopping 400 hectares (20 times the average farm size) back in 2008. So whatever you do, don't think he's the average farmer; he really isn't.
“Want to get a sense of how things are getting worse? According to property consultants Strutt & Parker, non-farmers were responsible for less than a third of farmland purchases in 2010... but this had risen to 56% by last year.
“In the last year alone, 400,000 hectares of agricultural land have been taken out of use for farming, as the wealthiest purchase land. Doing so allows them to avoid IHT.
“Traditionally, IHT hasn't been applied to farmland to avoid the breakup of family farms. Now, though, that's working against the country; the wealthy are purchasing vast tracts of land that avoids paying IHT.
“You know what happens in that scenario? The family farms that we're talking about trying to protect... are gone. If you want to talk about food security, the reality is that things are getting worse.
“Looking at this, there seems a strong case for IHT reform. The current situation is both unsustainable and deeply problematic, leading to an outcome we desperately want to avoid - where the wealthy own almost all the land and family farms are dying.
“This, of course, is NOT the discussion that's happening in the media. Why not? Well, partly because a lot of famous, wealthy, and vocal people WILL be affected by the change to IHT (Jeremy Clarkson, Lloyd Webber, etc).
“Ten landowners - just ten! - own one sixth of Dorset. They include Jonathan Harmsworth... whose family own the Daily Mail. Are alarm bells beginning to ring over the way this debate's being framed?
We have a romanticized vision of how country life works. The problem is the mental image most people have of farming... is out of date'.
From an article I've just read on facebook. Apologies for not having the source to hand [I'll try to find it] but I would imagine the figures are correct.

Excellent info

HousePlantQueen Mon 25-Nov-24 17:20:16

Elegran

Seen online. This can presumably be checked in official data. I don't have time to check it right now, but I am sure someone has.

Oh dear, we can't have posters derailing the thread with the truth!

David49 Mon 25-Nov-24 19:09:26

Family farms disappearing has nothing to do with IHT the younger generation don’t want the long hours and lack of profitability, the farm is taken over by a neighbour and the problem appears again in 10yrs

It’s not IHT that’s killing farms it’s low prices and regulation. IHT makes it harder to pass wealth on further handicapping even viable farms

foxie48 Tue 26-Nov-24 08:42:20

David 49 is correct in saying IHT isn't killing small farms, these changes don't come in until April 2026! Farmers need income from the land they farm not an increase in land values that they can pass on to their heirs IHT free. It's only wealthy people with other income streams who benefit from that or farmers who have retired and kept their land to pass on to their children who have no intention of farming.

Wyllow3 Tue 26-Nov-24 10:16:02

Some excellent information on this page. Elegrams succinct list is really effective but really ignored by those just wishing to Labour-bash.

Grantanow Tue 26-Nov-24 15:03:22

Thanks for the informative post Elegran. I'm sure much of the protest is uninformed or pushed by wealthier farmer-landowners seeking to avoid IHT and tenant farmers don't own the land so are unlikely to be affected.

Elegran Tue 26-Nov-24 16:07:38

Don't thank me, I didn't either do a lot of research or write those bullet points myself. I found and copied the image from Facebook - where it had been posted by someone I know is a Gransnet member who could also have posted it on this thread.
It was also a cross-posting with MayBee70 , who had very similar info in more detail, at about the same time. The facts are all out there to be seen, if people would take the trouble to look first at the source, before going headlong into rant mode.

Fleurpepper Wed 27-Nov-24 17:10:05

Swallowed, hook, line and sinker- yet again- what the 'gutter' presse says.

www.facebook.com/share/p/14jaa1QZnm/

the money 'given' to foreign farmers and Tories.

Fleurpepper Mon 02-Dec-24 19:14:22

www.facebook.com/share/p/19bH1obYCg/

Published by The Mirror!

2.568 farms owned by toffs and fatcats!

There are approx. 100.000 farms, with 22 million acres.

2.568 farms own or manage 5.6 million acres.

Allira Mon 02-Dec-24 19:20:50

Farm ownership: About 70% of farms in the UK are owner-occupied or mostly so

Allira Mon 02-Dec-24 19:22:36

I ponder why so many people are anti-farming.