Putin lowers the nuclear threshold, as longrange missiles start to hit further inland

Well you can thank the current POTUS who gave Ukraine permission to use ATACMS (American long range missiles)

I find myself agreeing with GrannyGravy

Yes agree with GG Biden's vindictive Swan Song just before he waltzes off into the sunset.

GG13- what difference does it make to all of us, and to the UK that is particularly vulnerable in case of a 'one off just to make the point' - geographically and politically isolated, and within easy range?

Fleurpepper

GG13- what difference does it make to all of us, and to the UK that is particularly vulnerable in case of a 'one off just to make the point' - geographically and politically isolated, and within easy range?

POTUS Biden has poked the bear.

There is absolutely no point hand wringing as there is absolutely nothing we as individuals can do.

I focus my thoughts on what I can control not what I cannot.

Trump said he will stop this but how? Just another lie? Or is their hope?

Russia borders with Ukraine, it's not like any nuclear fall out could be contained, he'd cause catastrophic damage to his own country too.

Macadia

Trump said he will stop this but how? Just another lie? Or is their hope?

I am not a fan of POTUS Trump, but I do have more faith in him negotiating with Putin to stop any escalation than I have in POTUS Biden.

TerriBull

Russia borders with Ukraine, it's not like any nuclear fall out could be contained, he'd cause catastrophic damage to his own country too.

which is why I don't think he would target Ukraine.

Agree with GG13 re folly of Biden. Not so sure re Trump unless he can use it to score off Biden. His supporters are uninterested in Ukraine.

Glad there is a thread as been following it. It's been going on so long now. I don't have a view yet on these latest moves.

"Most analysts speculate any deal would involve an approximate freezing of the front lines, with Moscow and Kyiv making or receiving security guarantees to prevent the conflict reigniting.

Russia continues to make small yet consistent gains on the eastern front line, and would swallow about a fifth of Ukraine were the front lines negotiated into new permanent borders."

The intention seems to be securing a position where the borders would mean any deal means Ukraine doesnt lose huge chunks of its country.

(CNN)

Wyllow3 yep, but and it’s a big but, the negotiations and subsequent end of hostilities have to be done in such a way that Putin doesn’t lose face and Zelensky doesn’t lose territory.

Same article speculates on Trump despite the "settle in a day"
that wouldn't be the approach.

edition.cnn.com/2024/11/18/europe/analysis-ukraine-war-trump-diplomacy-intl-latam/index.html?iid=cnn_buildContentRecirc_end_recirc

Absolutely GG13.

Putin can’t really want a war, nuclear or not with any Nato country as his war in Ukraine isn’t going well, he’s having to use criminals from jails and North Koreans to boost army numbers.
Am guessing he’s desperate now to end it with some sort of face saving measure.
He may bang a warlike drum in rhetoric but it’s all a bluff.

Fleurpepper

GG13- what difference does it make to all of us, and to the UK that is particularly vulnerable in case of a 'one off just to make the point' - geographically and politically isolated, and within easy range?

Don’t be silly we’re not politically isolated 🙄we’re a Nato country, France and Switzerland are just as easy to reach and Germany even nearer.

I think it could have been anticipated that whoever it is that is actually running America right now (ie being Biden's puppet master) would take a last chance before Trump comes back to power. Gotta keep that military/industrial complex fed with lots of our money buying their weapons I guess....

But it is certainly a scary situation. There's a debate I'm following right now on a womens prepping Facebook group where opinions differ between 1. how to prep more/prep harder on the one hand and those who are more aware of just how bad things could get in group 2 (and we are the ones whose preps are more likely to be "short and sharp" and include a farewell drink or two).

Yep....how can ya' tell I'm in group 2. But all of us are worried - both those who regard nuclear war as survivable and those of us who know it wouldnt be.

Time will tell and I'm not sure who I'd like 5 minutes in an unsupervised room with right now - whether it's Zelinsky or whoever is Biden's puppet master - but I'd love to lock up the pair of them where they couldn't do any more harm.

Oreo

Putin can’t really want a war, nuclear or not with any Nato country as his war in Ukraine isn’t going well, he’s having to use criminals from jails and North Koreans to boost army numbers.
Am guessing he’s desperate now to end it with some sort of face saving measure.
He may bang a warlike drum in rhetoric but it’s all a bluff.

I’m thinking, hoping, you’re right Oreo.
But as GG said, hostilities will have to end with Putin not losing face and Zelensky not losing land.

They could agree that Russia keeps Crimea, true, Putin already has it but it could be part of a ratified peace deal.
Crimea has a great number of Russians and is generally pro Russia anyway.

Putin has been sabre rattling since the war started, when he found occupying Ukraine was not a walk over. I do not think Biden had any choice but to let Ukraine use its missiles over Russia.

Trump is prepared to sell Ukraine down the river in his pursuit of an isolationist USA. Ukraine needs all the bargaining chips it can get ahead of that - and doing serious damamge to Russia and occupying Russian territory is an important part of that strategy. There are also a buffer of states on Ukraine's borders: Moldova, Georgia, even Poland, who fear that given free rein Putin will want to add them to his empire. They look to the free world, which includes NATO, as a military organisation, and the EU, as a political organisation as their protection and while, I agree, that NATO needs to be less reliant on the Americans, than it is, but at the moment those border states need reassurance. It is not coincidence that after Putin invaded Ukraine, that a group of states previously resolutely neutral in Europe: Finland and Sweden among them, promptly applied to join NATO.

Oreo

Putin can’t really want a war, nuclear or not with any Nato country as his war in Ukraine isn’t going well, he’s having to use criminals from jails and North Koreans to boost army numbers.
Am guessing he’s desperate now to end it with some sort of face saving measure.
He may bang a warlike drum in rhetoric but it’s all a bluff.

oreo way back at the beginning of this I, like many others, didn’t think Putin would really invade Ukraine. I thought he was bluffing. I won’t make that mistake again.

However, in order to remain sane, I do as GrannyGravy13 does and focus on things I can influence for the better rather than fretting about those way beyond my control.

Fleurpepper

very very dangerous indeed. What a terrible game of nuclear poker is being played. Anything could happen next.

Nothing is going to happen next Only the little man making hollow threats.
As for him knocking out 5 of the 6 missiles launched by Ukraine, the little man doesn’t have that capability.

I think Biden is a dangerous man who has brought us to the brink of World War 3. He has poked the bear and we will all suffer the consequences. You can rail and complain about Trump all you like but he wouldn’t have done this.

The Russian Foreign Minister said today that their nuclear doctrine allows nukes to be used against a non nuclear power which is supported by a nuclear power. Clearly refers to Ukraine and US. I see this as a final warning. Continued firing of ATACMS into Russia will see tactical nukes used against the areas launching the missiles.