Putin lowers the nuclear threshold, as longrange missiles start to hit further inland

I think it was a hasty move at his stage. Biden will be out by January and Trump in. De escalation is the key, surely? Our PM has just endorsed the arrest of the Israel PM. Will this not encourage more aggression in our country between pro Palestinians and anti? But then I am a conservative. Not a lefty always looking to cause trouble and strife?

Fleurpepper

Oldbat1

love0c

Yes this is my opinion - Biden/Harris wish to cause as much trouble and mess before they go! Typical equivalent of Labour in this country too. Labour realise it is doubtful they will last their full term. Hence, they wish to cause as much trouble and mess as possible.

Rubbish!

on speed. What nonsense.

It is rubbish, it may even be an advantage to Trump, escalating now might just convince Putin how weak he really is and make it easier to get a deal to end the war.

Biden really wants to go out with a bang. Literally.

NanKate

If only Europe had given Ukraine even more support at the beginning of the conflict I think Ukraine would have succeeded. We are giving this extra help and equipment too late imo.

Putin doesn’t care how many of his troops are killed.

What a disaster for all concerned.

I think that is wishful thinking. To have responded as we have now would have been a gross over reaction to Putins invasion. and could have tempted him to use nuclear weapons early on. And what is your definition of 'success' for Ukraine? Driving the Russians out of the country? They would just regroup and reinvade.

Every commander, reliant on others for his supplies always says too little too late. But we can see in Gaza what happens when you over react to quickly. You soon get pulled into a war, based on over reacting at every level - and we can see what has happened, and is happening in the middle east.

This restrained build up in power and force, has made it difficult for Russia to gain any moral authority in this war, or enabled it to pose as anything but the aggressor.

The next step is seeing what happens when Trump comes into power.

If only Europe had given Ukraine even more support at the beginning of the conflict I think Ukraine would have succeeded. We are giving this extra help and equipment too late imo.

Putin doesn’t care how many of his troops are killed.

What a disaster for all concerned.

Oldbat1

love0c

Yes this is my opinion - Biden/Harris wish to cause as much trouble and mess before they go! Typical equivalent of Labour in this country too. Labour realise it is doubtful they will last their full term. Hence, they wish to cause as much trouble and mess as possible.

Rubbish!

on speed. What nonsense.

The “threat” from Russia was greatly overstated, the performance during the Ukraine campaign proves how badly equipped and led they were, decades behind in technology.

There is no chance any conformation directly with NATO is going to be remotely successful for Russia, although I can understand why Russia is paranoid about the expansion of NATO.

It will be interesting which way Trump decides to go

jd79

Didn't Trump say he would help Ukraine when he became President? I thought Biden just gave permission for the missiles to be used because Trump was going to anyway.
Mean while back in England our newly elected has or is going to get rid of some of our weapons, ships or whatever scaling back our defence because the government say they can't afford it What can't afford to keep the British Isle safe?. Leaving us where exactly? He's also given Zelensky permission to use our missiles to fire into Russian! Th next thing we'll see him patting Putin on the back trying to make amends for doing that. I hope I'm joking :-(

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) is set to receive a £2.9 billion increase in its budget, announced by Chancellor Rachel Reeves in her first budget speech

ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-to-boost-defence-budget-by-2-9bn/

Tactical decisions about what to spend our defence budget on in a changing world of different defence challenges will have been made by defence experts and it may not be keeping 50 year old ships, weapons!

Willjac123

M0nica

Putin has been sabre rattling since the war started, when he found occupying Ukraine was not a walk over. I do not think Biden had any choice but to let Ukraine use its missiles over Russia.

Trump is prepared to sell Ukraine down the river in his pursuit of an isolationist USA. Ukraine needs all the bargaining chips it can get ahead of that - and doing serious damamge to Russia and occupying Russian territory is an important part of that strategy. There are also a buffer of states on Ukraine's borders: Moldova, Georgia, even Poland, who fear that given free rein Putin will want to add them to his empire. They look to the free world, which includes NATO, as a military organisation, and the EU, as a political organisation as their protection and while, I agree, that NATO needs to be less reliant on the Americans, than it is, but at the moment those border states need reassurance. It is not coincidence that after Putin invaded Ukraine, that a group of states previously resolutely neutral in Europe: Finland and Sweden among them, promptly applied to join NATO.

Very well put, MOnica

Absolutely agree! All of NATO agreed, we all put our energies into Ukraine, no party politics, we took people into our homes, Biden is continuing this policy.

love0c

Yes this is my opinion - Biden/Harris wish to cause as much trouble and mess before they go! Typical equivalent of Labour in this country too. Labour realise it is doubtful they will last their full term. Hence, they wish to cause as much trouble and mess as possible.

Rubbish!

I would be very surprised if Russia uses nuclear weapons at this stage, they can establish a defensive line and it will be very difficult and costly to break.

M0nica

Putin has been sabre rattling since the war started, when he found occupying Ukraine was not a walk over. I do not think Biden had any choice but to let Ukraine use its missiles over Russia.

Trump is prepared to sell Ukraine down the river in his pursuit of an isolationist USA. Ukraine needs all the bargaining chips it can get ahead of that - and doing serious damamge to Russia and occupying Russian territory is an important part of that strategy. There are also a buffer of states on Ukraine's borders: Moldova, Georgia, even Poland, who fear that given free rein Putin will want to add them to his empire. They look to the free world, which includes NATO, as a military organisation, and the EU, as a political organisation as their protection and while, I agree, that NATO needs to be less reliant on the Americans, than it is, but at the moment those border states need reassurance. It is not coincidence that after Putin invaded Ukraine, that a group of states previously resolutely neutral in Europe: Finland and Sweden among them, promptly applied to join NATO.

Very well put, MOnica

petra I’m with you on this and who to listen to.Certainly not forum members doom mongering.

petra, this is not 'just' about Russia. But about smaller, so called 'battlefield' types of nuclear missiles threatening the very original concept of MAD- and escalation.

I was concerned that our defences are being lowered at a very dangerous time, scrapping, choppers, drones, ships etc before replacements are ready. These will take years probably to build. Surely it’s better to have old equipment than no equipment at all. I saw Starmer is allowing British missiles to be fired into Russia, just days after stupid Joe made his mad decision. Do we always have to follow the USA?

Fleurpepper

'You don’t turn the other cheek with bullies. You smack them as hard ( or harder) than they smack you.'

and how does that work, in the nuclear missiles in the hand a multiple madmen in the world???

I prefer to believe the experts at Chatham House rather than armchair pundits on GN.

www.chathamhouse.org/2022/07/myths-and-misconceptions-around-russian-military-intent/myth-6-russias-nuclear-threats-are

Didn't Trump say he would help Ukraine when he became President? I thought Biden just gave permission for the missiles to be used because Trump was going to anyway.
Mean while back in England our newly elected has or is going to get rid of some of our weapons, ships or whatever scaling back our defence because the government say they can't afford it What can't afford to keep the British Isle safe?. Leaving us where exactly? He's also given Zelensky permission to use our missiles to fire into Russian! Th next thing we'll see him patting Putin on the back trying to make amends for doing that. I hope I'm joking :-(

Oreo

Putin is threatening to use battlefield type nuclear missiles not nuclear bombs that decimate a country.

In the early nuclear age, the basic principle was MAD- mutual assured destruction.

The newish nuclear 'battlefield' types are therefore so so much more dangerous- as there is this really dangerous concept that they could be used tactically, without MAD. Do you really believe that if any of the madmen out there start using them, it would not lead to retaliation and escalation, and to larger bombs?

I think the USA sending land mines to Ukraine is VERY distressing!!

They are a weapon that the international community has long condemned because of its danger to innocent civilians. And it reflects another in a long line of American policy shifts on the controversial issue in the past 30 years.

GrannyGravy13

Macadia

Trump said he will stop this but how? Just another lie? Or is their hope?

I am not a fan of POTUS Trump, but I do have more faith in him negotiating with Putin to stop any escalation than I have in POTUS Biden.

You must be joking!

You have the right to your opinion, but how can you believe that Trump has the power of persuasion to stop Putin`?

Only a resounding victory to Ukraine and the retaining of all areas, including Crimea, that Putin wants will stop him.

What an idiot Biden is. Did he think this would end his presidency in a blaze of glory.
Quite the opposite I think.
Lets hope this does not provokes Putin too far.

correct last sentence "as well as Putin's demand that Ukraine have no alliances with NATO/Europe

Trump has every intention of keeping the USA at the same or higher levels of military power.

Without doubt he will continue to supply Israel with arms and be prepared to intervene in other parts of the world - if he feels the USA is under threat.

The major change in US policy that both Trump and Biden have followed is the end of sending large numbers of troops to fight wars as in "feet on the ground" as in Iraq, Afghanistan.

Instead they are "war-mongering" - if we want to use this term by proxy.

The point about Ukraine/Russia is that it is not an immediate threat to the USA so in Trumps mind - so why pay? but if Iran remains a threat and it allies with Putin then? And the North Korean alliance with Russia?

The change in regime away from NATO (although I doubt that the USA will want to withdraw wholesale from all the bases it has in many parts of the world)

is now what we are facing in Europe.

I think Biden (and, btw, the rest of NATO) intention is to halt Russian progress and weaken it at any negotiating table.

I've had in mind to post this article for some time because it outlines complexities ahead in relationship to Trump being able to "solve in a day". It's quite a read but does show how intransigent both Russia and Ukraine will be to losing/gaining chunks of Ukraine as well as Putin's demand that Ukraine have alliances with NATO/Europe.

www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-ascendant-ukraine-eyes-contours-trump-peace-deal-2024-11-20/

Appeaser then? He does nothing if it has no business opportunity in it- also he's very happy when people are doing just as he likes, a bit like Putin really... who is no appeaser but a war mongerer, killer and murderer.

Sometimes I judge people by their friends...

Skydancer

I don’t like Trump but he’s not a warmonger.

I’ll second that, the latest missiles will make it more difficult for Russia for sure, I would expect him to dig in and hold the line for now, instead of taking more land. He will keep bombing Ukraine when he can, I don’t think he has the weapons to match those that “could” be supplied to Ukraine if NATO wished.

Just what Trumps line is going to be is far from clear, during his term the Ukraine war will end, he will want to take credit for that.