Call a General Election - Petition

Iam64

Top gunner your post about asylum seekers is frankly disgusting as well as being ill informed . The question abiut why mostly men on the dangerous small boats has been answered endlessly. There is no point attempting to discuss this subject with bigots

I am not a bigot, I am saying it like it is. I wonder what you would say if a hotel near where you lived turned into an illegal immigrant hotel. Or the people who are saying 'we welcome immigrants' would want a houseful of men living next door to them.

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Mental health or depression is just a cop out for most, like a bad back there is no definitive diagnosis. There are plenty of jobs, businesses want more workers BUT they need them to turn up on time and follow instructions. A plumber, electrician or any other builder needs his workers at 7.30 am every day without fail if the apprentice doesnt turn up he/she gets left behind.

The other problem is employment legislation, it’s very easy for a new employees to claim unfairness or discrimination, purely to get out of working. They work the system and there are plenty of lawyers to help them get compensation, so it’s not surprising employers don’t want to know

I remember years ago there was a Youth Training Scheme where the government employed the trainee the employer part paid for them, we had a couple but they didn’t want to be there and learn the job

What an utterly objectionable post from you David.

Personally due to a botched operation,I hvae had some degree of back pain for over 30 years. I also suffered a neglectful and abusive childhood which resulted in a lifelong struggle with low mood.
I worked, I'm still working, I raised a family and I've volunteered for many worthwhile projects,

My DIL has autoimmune problems and scoliosis. She works hard.
Neither of us has ever claimed a penny from the state. I have paid thousands and thousands of pounds to try to help myself.

There are plenty of jobs

Tell that to the 170 applicants for a fairly lowly admin job.

Utterly objectionable and wrong on every level.

Jeanathome

What an utterly objectionable post from you David.

Personally due to a botched operation,I hvae had some degree of back pain for over 30 years. I also suffered a neglectful and abusive childhood which resulted in a lifelong struggle with low mood.
I worked, I'm still working, I raised a family and I've volunteered for many worthwhile projects,

My DIL has autoimmune problems and scoliosis. She works hard.
Neither of us has ever claimed a penny from the state. I have paid thousands and thousands of pounds to try to help myself.

My post isn’t aimed at those with genuine reasons why they can’t work it’s aimed at 5% or more that don’t want work and thousands of migrants come in to replace them.

We are told that 25% of those of working age are not economically active, that’s pretty disgraceful. Young people especially they could do all sorts of unskilled work but they simply don’t want to when they can get money for nothing.

Migrants travel thousands of miles, live in caravans and hostels to harvest vegetables, fruit and many other agency jobs, work that our own young people would not cross the road for.
How can anyone defend them because they say they are depressed

Your ignorance knows no bounds.

Migrants travel thousands of miles, live in caravans and hostels to harvest vegetables, fruit and many other agency jobs, work that our own young people would not cross the road for.

There are two sides to that story, David, one side of which is deeply, and rightly, unattractive to anyone but the workers who have been brought in 'thousands of miles' to discover appalling living conditions, uncertain hours, with no payment at all for time lost through bad weather, 'piece work' payments and no job security.

Not all employers are virtuous, you know. Some are downright evil. Local people will know that and their youth will quite rightly avoid them. If you think there is something wrong with that it's very sad...

Surely schools and colleges need a very strong careers department? All pupils should have access to professional guidance for career counselling and university applications. I would like each school leaver to have had good work experience and mentoring before applying for a specific apprenticeship or degree course regardless of social background. I guess some parents are just more hands on than others but I wonder why so many young people are adrift. It could be a COVID effect too.

David49
Mental health or depression is just a cop out for most, like a bad back there is no definitive diagnosis

Good grief. I can’t believe I’ve just read that comment.

It clearly passed you by, ronib, but since the tories came to power in 2010 school and local authority budgets were progressively cut to the bone in the pursuit of 'austerity' and 'small state' ideology.

I'm not saying that schools have ever been perfect in regard to their careers guidance and support, but I worked in a support role in a standard comp (area of high deprivation) and from 2010 to 2013 I watched so many services being stripped away and support jobs lost as a result of budget cuts.

FE was even worse than secondary apparently.

Add to that a lack of jobs in many areas...

TopGunner several of us have tried to explain about illegal immigrants asylum seekers on another thread.

It's tedious having to do it all again.

There is no illegal immigrant hotel nor is there any illegal immigrant student accommodation.

Please take note.
Thanks.

Ignorance is astounding, so many are perfectly happy for young people to idle their lives away when there is work, any employer will tell you how frustrated they are at the work ethic today.

Starmers plan is targeting young people who are mostly physically fit and could do many jobs, it’s going to be minimum wage, they should earn whatever money they receive, rather than do nothing.

Grannynannywanny

David49
Mental health or depression is just a cop out for most, like a bad back there is no definitive diagnosis

Good grief. I can’t believe I’ve just read that comment.

Agree. Shocking, and cruel comments. Its like being back 30 years ago when MH had a stigma attached, and what you have said pours scorn.

Depression is a genuine health condition with real symptoms. It's not a sign of weakness, and it's not something that can be "snapped out of".

I'm finding it bizarre that after all the highly visible damage that the tories inflicted on the UK without a murmur from the greater part of the populace this topic is being discussed on a thread supporting a 'petition' engineered by hysterical rightwingers calling for GE barely 5 months into a Labour government.

MI5 keeping tabs on Harold Wilson seems like perfectly natural behaviour compared with the paranoia if the modern rightwing...

MaizieD thank you for your insight. I was surprised by a hopeful Oxford application being turned down because the statement was inappropriate. Do schools not check UCAS applications?

I get that the Tories decimated services but we are in a different place now. It’s up to the new government to further decimate or improve services as it wishes. A good careers department seems a start.

Why are there two threads on the same subject, it is very confusing and annoying?

MaizieD

I'm finding it bizarre that after all the highly visible damage that the tories inflicted on the UK without a murmur from the greater part of the populace this topic is being discussed on a thread supporting a 'petition' engineered by hysterical rightwingers calling for GE barely 5 months into a Labour government.

MI5 keeping tabs on Harold Wilson seems like perfectly natural behaviour compared with the paranoia if the modern rightwing...

Yes, every day in small or greater ways we are finding out the consequences of years of austerity.

And a stupid petition based on a government failing to redress in a short time.

Cuts in career services (becuase a good careers service means 1 or 2 staff members working pretty much all out in a large comprehensive. But while there are teacher shortages, that will come first, where is the funding for that?

Slashed MH services so treatment is hard to come by to help get people back into work cant be remedied overnight.

David49

Ignorance is astounding, so many are perfectly happy for young people to idle their lives away when there is work, any employer will tell you how frustrated they are at the work ethic today.

Starmers plan is targeting young people who are mostly physically fit and could do many jobs, it’s going to be minimum wage, they should earn whatever money they receive, rather than do nothing.

Have some humility. I have told you loud and clear that I have had depression and back pain for over 30 years. During this time I have contributed to society in many ways.

My adult children have slogged their way through paper rounds, hospitality jobs,late night shifts and so on. How dare you tell me young people are lazy.

I look forward to an apology. And the racism isn't helping.

So what is the answer to a situation where the UK is struggling for money, there is an ageing population and a rising health bill, but 25% of working age people are contributing nothing?

We have a welfare state, which pays for healthcare, education, defence etc, but that relies on us having a buoyant economy with as close to full employment as possible.

If on the one hand there are low wages, zero hours contracts and dead end jobs, and on the other there are benefits for those who don’t work, why would people choose the former over the latter? Being on benefits means that every aspect of people’s lives is controlled. They have to account for their actions to show they are looking for work, any money they might make is means-tested away, and they can be sent for interviews for jobs they may not want. Some will work cash in hand for very little, which boosts the profits of unscrupulous employers, because they need the money to pay rent to unscrupulous landlords. Basically they are criminalised to make money for others. Obviously, some of those ‘others’ prefer it like that. Cheap labour and high rents are bad for the workers but great for those profiting from them.

After a few generations people can lose sight of the fact that there are alternatives.

We can decide to force people into work by cutting benefits, or we can encourage it by improving wages and conditions, offering training and making going to work a more attractive option than a life of dependency and being controlled. Or do a bit of both. It’s also important to be fair to those who do work, and resent propping up a system that allows others to have a similar lifestyle without the bother of going to work.

Within a few months of being elected the government has introduced workers’ rights to job security, increased minimum wage, and stopped the blatant exploitation of young workers by increasing their wages to nearer those of older people doing the same job. Now they are trying to nudge people out of the benefit trap and into work. As ever, we need to give them a chance to see whether, as they say, they will acknowledge that there are those who can’t do certain things, whilst also helping them to find things they can do.

Why not give this approach a try? It has to be better than leaving people to choose between poverty on benefits and poverty in work.

NotSpaghetti

TopGunner several of us have tried to explain about illegal immigrants asylum seekers on another thread.

It's tedious having to do it all again.

There is no illegal immigrant hotel nor is there any illegal immigrant student accommodation.

Please take note.
Thanks.

Errrm.....there is.

A good search on YouTube videos will reveal a noticeable number of people paying a visit to a hotel or, in at least one case, student accommodation and showing the security guards there/the occupants/etc. Yep....there are groups of the occupants shown outside the hotels and yep...they are all young men (what is called "fighting age" of 18-40).

The most cursory bit of googling will bring up various newspaper articles showing one of the hotels that's just cancelled all bookings with little/if any notice - as they are now being used as an illegal immigrant hotel.

One would have to be pretty blinkered not to realise that a noticeable amount of our hotels etc have been taken over for this purpose.

Personally - if I were a young woman living in the vicinity I would still go out and about exactly as per normal and dressed as per normal (yep....short skirts/low necklines/very tight jeans I used to wear back then) and I would react if I got a "reaction" and so I do understand parents being concerned for their daughters for instance.

The Home Office has always been clear that they do use hotels as temporary accommodation for asylum seekers.

They do not house illegal immigrants in them.

Please could you link to the facts/evidence you have discovered?
Thanks.

Yep....illegal immigrants do then often go on to become asylum seekers. It is the same people. "A rose by any other name" and certainly many of them came across the Channel in small boats...and the term "asylum seekers" is one I keep purely for genuine asylum seekers (ie people being persecuted in their home country - which they have all the documents for on them - eg because they are women in a society that is anti-women). Asylum seekers is not a name due to be used for those arriving illegally/with destroyed documents and darn nearly all of them are obviously young men - where are the women and children?

One very quick flip at YouTube putting in the term "illegal immigrant hotel UK" and up comes video after video after video and including mainstream tv news channels (ie as well as an individual man in the street doing one personally).

I think it's some carrot and some stick, Doodledog, (as I think you suggest) and far from simple.

The petition is born of a combination frustrations belonging to years of austerity which the government cannot possibly address in a short time,
of day by day blaming by right wing press, underreporting of what Labour has done,

and the people complaining of this or that being wrong and the government should do such and such - but no one wants to pay and howls of protest when we are asked to.

David49
"Mental health or depression is just a cop out for most, like a bad back there is no definitive diagnosis"
David this is a ignorant and misinformed post, you should be ashamed of yourself. I worked until 66, taking medication for depression, I was lucky the meds worked for me. Some people are not so lucky and everyday is a struggle for them and they would be incapable of working.

Agreed, Wyllow, as well as a concerted effort on SM to galvanise hatred for the new government in general, and Starmer in particular. It's the same tropes time after time, the same 'witty' names, the same pretence at balance and the same accusations - all of them false.

Which promises has Labour broken? What has caused the seismic shift from stereotyping benefit claimants as flat-screen TV-watching tattooed scroungers with gel nails and an inability to budget, to victims of a heartless regime who need sympathy and understanding?