Overspend/under delivery by the former government confirmed!

I know MissA, and we were receiving stock dated 2016, and there was a pitiful supply of that even. I hope we never come to that again in this country, it was very frightening.

Also the masks.
We were issued with instructions on how to use them more than once, because the NHS took almost all of our stock, which was fair enough, but they were desperately short, and obviously they faced more danger than us.

Ruthiek
During Covid I remember hearing a comment by a specialist who said “ this government will not get re-elected after what they have had to do to keep this country going during Covid
It’s very like Marc Antony
The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones

It’s like that with every change of government.
The LP have the advantage of not being able to prove that they could or would have dealt with it any better.

MissAdventure

Also the masks.
We were issued with instructions on how to use them more than once, because the NHS took almost all of our stock, which was fair enough, but they were desperately short, and obviously they faced more danger than us.

Yes, masks were in very short supply, even the lower grade ones that were not up to the required standard. Staff in both the NHS and care homes were incredibly brave and stoical in those early days, the country owes them a great debt.

We know that the government carried out a large scale rehearsal for a major pandemic about 10 yrs ago, one of the shortcomings was lack of PPE.

They knew that a large store of PPE was needed but did nothing about it, when Covid started they had nothing outside the regular supply chain.

How much emergency PPE stockpile is available now?.

We actually know a lot more than that, David. The cobid inquiry's first interim report of 'preparedness' was published in June and it makes disturbing reading.

There would probably have been more publicity about the report had there not been a General Election imminent.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66b2053c0808eaf43b50dd89/UK-Covid-19-Inquiry-Module-1-Full-Report.pdf

MaizieD

We actually know a lot more than that, David. The cobid inquiry's first interim report of 'preparedness' was published in June and it makes disturbing reading.

There would probably have been more publicity about the report had there not been a General Election imminent.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66b2053c0808eaf43b50dd89/UK-Covid-19-Inquiry-Module-1-Full-Report.pdf

I’m not surprised in the slightest that nobody has done anything.

Will our new leader redress the issue

I didn't say that 'nobody has done anything', David, I just said that the report, which makes shocking reading, didn't get much, if any, publicity.

As to whether or not it has been acted on, I intend to write to my MP to ask the question.

Looking at the report I can’t see any recommendations for PPE reserves nor is there anything online since Covid. Whether you get an accurate reply from your MP will be interesting, more likely the strategy for reserve PPE will be revealed.

The report concentrates on expert advice, on any topic you will get a range of advice given, you choose which fits best in the circumstances. Then you are guaranteed to get others saying it was a waste of money. More saying it was too little, we saw this world wide

I don't think you read the same report that I did, David Far from concentrating on expert advice it covers the whole unpreparedness of government and its structure to meet the challenges of the pandemic. From a confused multiplicity of bodies set up to supposedly cover such emergencies to the failure to look beyond a flu pandemic and failure to look closely at international experiences with other illnesses and the inaction of the government machinery on the results of numerous 'exercises...

PPE was covered briefly in Ch. 5

start
Personal protective equipment
5.85. The importance of PPE was an issue that arose repeatedly in the exercises, including the 2016 exercises Silver Swan (pandemic influenza in Scotland) and Iris (a MERS-CoV outbreak in Scotland), and in the lead-up to Cygnus.132

5.86. It was clear that PPE needed to be stockpiled in advance of a pandemic, in sufficient quantities, fit-tested and connected to an effective distribution network.
Sir Christopher Wormald told the Inquiry that “[w]e never nationally ran out of PPE”, but that “in individual places there were shortages of PPE and people having to use
not the right PPE”.
133 Mr Hancock said that there were logistical difficulties in getting access to stockpiles quickly.

*134 The Inquiry will be examining this and PPE more fully
in subsequent modules.*

end

But I was trying to pint out that there had been more than one major exercise over the years.

Chapter 5 p111 has a diagram setting out the numerous exercises and reports which had taken place since 2000, either nationwide or in the devolved authorities

Among the problems with these exercises this was noted:

start

5.56. ...., there was a lack of openness about the outcome of the exercises. The Local Government Association was not sighted on the conclusions of Exercise Cygnus.
Although the Exercise Cygnus report included all local resilience forums on its distribution list and it was to be published on ResilienceDirect, *the Local Government
Association only obtained disclosure of the report as a result of legal proceedings* brought by another body in 2020.89 It was not aware of Exercise Alice until the autumn of 2022, when its existence became known through the work of this Inquiry.

90 There was no local government involvement in Exercise Alice, nor were its report or recommendations shared.

91 Mr Lloyd told the Inquiry that, had the Local
Government Association known about issues such as the potential importance of quarantining in planning, it “would have changed what we were doing in our local planning”

.92 Many others with an acute interest in the outcome of Exercise Cygnus, including the Royal College of Nursing and private care home providers, were unable to learn from it or contribute to the discussion about how the systems of
preparedness could be improved.

93 Reports should have been shared between
governments and key organisations, as well as with the public.

End

Lack of continuity in planning

start

5.50. However, following the February 2017 meeting of the Threats, Hazards, Resilience and Contingencies sub-Committee referred to above, it did not meet again.

Similarly,the Pandemic Flu Readiness Board did not meet for a year between November 2018 and November 2019. Following the year-long hiatus, it was recognised that there was a need to “re-invigorate the Board” and to “prioritize and re-energize work streams and the [Board]”.

85 *The UK government’s priority did not ever move back to
pandemic preparedness*. The Pandemic Flu Readiness Board did not meet again until 23 January 2020.

End

All in all, it speaks to a disturbing lack of real interest in successive governments in preparing thoroughly for any sort of pandemic.

It even says that impending Brexit meant that civil servants who were supposed to be working on pandemic preparedness were reallocated to work on Brexit planning...

I did read the Cygnus review as far as I could see the local health authorities were advised to hold “resilient” reserve.

You would have thought a direct requirement for at least a 3 month reserve supply of PPE for an emergency.

Evert one keeps on about the last 14 years, it’s as if no government existed before that. Short memories indeed, strikes, power cuts a note saying “no money left”.

Dont forget Covid. Yes there were a scandals but many people and businesses were saved. Yes you do have very short memories.

I’ve never understood how or why PPE can be unusable, unless it was supplied with a clear fault such as only one strap. Seems unlikely. It seems likely that it was out of date, but how plastic aprons and flimsy blue masks can become out of date and therefore unusable defeats me. And when I was in hospital during the pandemic with Covid, that was all the PPE the staff wore.

And I agree Lydie. People have short memories.
I wonder how much preparation the new government is engaged in now ready for the next pandemic.

petal53

And I agree Lydie. People have short memories.
I wonder how much preparation the new government is engaged in now ready for the next pandemic.

Could someone explain unusable or out of date?
If that’s the reason it was unusable, what purpose would be served by stockpiling it in case of another pandemic?

MaizieD

^couldn't he make some decisions that people want like get rid of TV licence don't watch BBC why do I have to pay for it^

The TV licence isn't to 'pay' for the BBC. The licence is a licence to receive live television, from whatever channel.

The TV licence no more pays for the BBC than the vehicle tax pays for the upkeep of the roads. It's a myth and it's time that government came clean on it...

It’s not a myth at all.The BBC licence fee goes to the BBC and is part of their revenue.It helps pay for all BBC programmes and radio.The BBC was the only public broadcaster at the time licences were required and it’s nonsense for many people to have to contribute this way when they never watch BBC programmes or listen to the radio.That goes for most people in their 20’s I bet.

Agree with the Rwandan debacle by the Tories, they were complete failures. Most right wing countries lead to impoverishment by reducing public spending and austerity that always affects the poor. Fundamentally disagree with increasing prison buildings. There is much quoted religious text along the lines of God helps those who help themselves. If govt policies don't affect lives the cycle of criminality stays the same. The Woolf reports made some excellent recommendations in 1990 ref Strangeways. Instead of spending money on prisons (which appears to be a personal ambition of the justice Sec) the money should be spent on mental health, the complete eradication of drugs, mobile phones, play stations etc. More money spent on 1:1 compulsory teaching on maths, english and other vocational skills directly related to parole for non-violent criminals or where no harm to people or property has been caused. Lord Timpson has some expertise here.
For seriously violent criminals who have a history of bad behaviour no parole until after 50 years as a minimum.

I can find a lot of discussions going on in the WHO and this plan Nov 2024
www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-create-world-first-early-warning-system-for-pandemics

Mollygo

petal53

And I agree Lydie. People have short memories.
I wonder how much preparation the new government is engaged in now ready for the next pandemic.

Could someone explain unusable or out of date?
If that’s the reason it was unusable, what purpose would be served by stockpiling it in case of another pandemic?

Storing PPE costs a lot of money, apparently.

According to a Labour MP in 2022:
Meg Hillier, a Labour MP and chair of the Commons public accounts committee, said: “The numbers are staggering – over 30bn items of PPE received so far with 5bn more on the way and 3.6bn items that can’t be used by frontline services. Storage alone has cost over £700m, with DHSC continuing to spend £7m a month storing PPE it doesn’t need.

So either Be Prepared and risk the equipment going past its bb date or risk not being prepared for another pandemic.
🤔

I shall be taking the next Pandemic alert with a massive pinch of sodium chloride. What with a war footing, UFO's, a shortage of Guinness, migrants, muslims taking over....."move along" as the good copper says......

Wyllow3

Thank you for this absolute clarity. No wonder Sunak had to call an election, and the Labour Party were right after all with the holes in spending.

What a legacy.

I totally agree, and the Tory media, which includes the BBC, is busy dissing Labour although they are doing a lot of good

Freya5

The current Gov is no better. In fact it's making things much worse. It's adding greatly to the debt already there. Labour have a bad reputation of spending other people's money, till other people's money, ie tax payer, runs out.

what Labour do is spend money on welfare issues, such as the NHS, schools and housing which billionaires don't need hence they say Labour spend too much. I am happy to pay taxes to Labour cos it goes on breakfast clubs for kids, youth centres etc which make the country nicer for us all to live in.

Sunak had to call an election
Agreed.
^ Labour Party were right after all with the holes in spending.^
The same holes that they said didn’t exist when Sunak proposed to cut the WFA to help fill them?
The policy that Starmer condemned when he was in opposition, but carried out once in power in order to fill the hole that suddenly existed?

The WHO initiatives I mentioned above and the UK plan go as far as very early warnings and increasing the ability to very quickly develop vaccines.

I don't think it's realistic to keep full stocks for all eventualities but surely having larger stocks than currently being needed, but it being used up as we go along not separately stockpiled is a worthwhile compromise.

Cossy

Freya5

The current Gov is no better. In fact it's making things much worse. It's adding greatly to the debt already there. Labour have a bad reputation of spending other people's money, till other people's money, ie tax payer, runs out.

I think it’s far too early to judge this govt.

It’s clear there was £££££££ wasted in the last govt.

May - ££££££ to the DUPs
Johnson - ££££££££££££ Track & Trace and PPE (just name two)
Truss - a fiscal disaster in 6 weeks.

I’m not a fan of some of the LP policies nor how they’ve been implemented, but one cannot compare 14 years to 6 months.

We need to be see the impact, negatively or positively, before we judge.

Well said Cossy, it is too early to judge this gov't, I partly agree with the winter fuel allowance but they should have stopped it at higher rate tax payers.
Some of our farmers have paid others to protest in London on their behalf. Rich people buying farms to evade inheritance tax have artificially inflated land prices so people who want to farm can't afford to do that so maybe this will adjust that imbalance.
But the monied classes who have lost their tax loophole have had their anger amplified and riled even those it could benefit now.