Toilet training - government responsible ?

I agree with Rosie - wet towelling nappies are uncomfortable, modern disposables are completely different.
I have been assured by many young mums that children are not ready until .. 2/3/4, whatever. My response is that I must have had a set of geniuses as they were all dry, day and night, before two. Unfortunately, their genius potential seemed to peak early. None of them have exhibited any signs of this since toddlerhood .

Was wondering about that. The Tories have governed for 67 of the last 100 years so doubt the socialists had a great part to play in deferring timely toilet training during the last 14 years of Conservative rule.

I completely agree with petal. Towelling nappies were a huge incentive to potty train your children. Both our DD were out of nappies at two, a further incentive was that nursery wouldn’t take them until they were. They loved being big girls and being able to wear pretty knickers. I’m appalled at parents who think that it’s the responsibility of the school to do this.

I was listening to Jeremy Vine yesterday who had a phone in on the subject, and a lady who sounded very articulate, said she didn’t have a clue about how to parent her child. I’m assuming she could read and had access to the internet where there is masses of information. I know a lot of young mothers have to work to survive but it seems increasingly that some, not all people, seem to think that raising their children are the state’s responsibility. Ducking now!

When my children were young in the 70s and 80s the local playgroups would not accept children still in nappies. They started at age 3.

I found training my son very simple, the day I brought my daughter home from hospital I simply said would you like to be a big boy now and not wear nappies like your sister. The nappies came off day and night from that moment. The only accident he ever had was when he was two, we were caught in a thunderstorm and a very loud clap of thunder made him jump and he wet himself.

These days mothers mostly return to work before the need to start training comes along and just hope that someone else will do the job.

I had two children who were in towelling nappies and the later two had disposables. It was definitely harder to train the later two, they were both nearer three than two years old by the time we were done.

All of my DC and their spouses who are parents work FT. All of the GC were potty trained before they were 3yo, a combination of nursery using regular toilet routines and the parents continuing that process at home.

I take my hat off to the nursery workers, who manage to train the multiple children in their care! 👏

SueDonim

I had two children who were in towelling nappies and the later two had disposables. It was definitely harder to train the later two, they were both nearer three than two years old by the time we were done.

All of my DC and their spouses who are parents work FT. All of the GC were potty trained before they were 3yo, a combination of nursery using regular toilet routines and the parents continuing that process at home.

I take my hat off to the nursery workers, who manage to train the multiple children in their care! 👏

Nursery workers have a strictly limited number of children in their care and don't have to worry about other household chores. My guess would be that under twos get just as much personal care as most babies who stay at home with their parents.

PS. I'm not playing Nappy Top Trumps, but my children (who both attended nursery full-time from the age of six months) were dry by an early age.

Parents are bloody lazy it’s as simple as that. My kids were potty trained at 18 months and dry completely by 2 years old. Teachers have enough to deal with without this added problem

I feel sorry for the Mums of today. Having to go out to work full time just to keep a roof over their heads and having to juggle everything else as well! Always under pressure.

Potty training is not easy! My youngest daughter took time off work to potty train hers. Took about 10 days in all in both cases. What’s the alternative? Hire someone else to do it??

I was a Mum.of yesterday and worked full time. Somehow everything got done including toilet training of course and everything else .

My older brother was born in the war he has Learning Disabilities Gran told Mum to get him toilet trained as she would have problems when he got older. He was toilet trained by 18 months

I'm baffled. I heard a mum on the radio yesterday say she had no parenting training!!!! What???
It takes two members of staff to change a nappy in school. Can you imagine how disruptive this is when you should be teaching! Sorry it's the parents who need to potty train their children.

I don't for a minute believe that schools would be allowed to refuse to accept a child who was not toilet trained. And how exactly would a school establish this fact before accepting a child?

How children are brought up changes from generation to generation, and quite honestly when we discuss this subject we would do well to remember that.

In Denmark, young parents have been told by health visitors, kindergarten teachers and their GPs for at least the last nine years (my grandson is nine now) that toilet training is a waste of time before the age of three, because it has been discovered that a hormone that controls the closing and opening of the bladder's spincter is not produced prior to that age.

I do not know if this is true or not, but I do know that this is the reason that children of three have not been trained. When my generation's children were three, a three-year - old still in nappies would not have been admitted to a kindergarten, but would have been sent back to the creche or day-care until he or she was potty-trained.

My mother was horrified at the very thought of a three-year-old in nappies! She claimed that my sister and I were toilet-trained at 18 months.

So, I tend to believe that the body starts to produce the hormone necessary when a timetable for using the potty is introduced, irrespective of the child's age.

Now, apparently, the pendulum is swinging back.

As to toilet training being difficult or not - for the present generation of parents it is hard because they have been taught you must not say "you must" to small children and would regard it as gross cruelty if told to place a child on the potty with instructions to remain there until they had used it, which was how we, and our children, learned this skill.

Also most parents today hand over babies and toddlers to a day-care, creche or kindergarten and collect them nine hours later when their own working day is over, and honestly, toilet training a fractious, tired child while making the evening meal and getting said child ready for bed - can you imagine it?

It is highly unlikely to be successful.

So before we get carried away on the in my day children did or did not hobby-horse, let's stop and remember how maddening we found it when our mothers, aunts and mothers-in-law started telling us how to bring up our bairns!

I think the improvements in disposable nappies have stopped any discomfort to the child. If it doesn’t feel wet, they won’t bother.
It reminds me of a teacher who, years ago now, sent a note home about the dreadful smell of an untrained child.
The answer came back ‘I send my Johnny to school to be learnt, not smelt’

tattygran14
The answer came back ‘I send my Johnny to school to be learnt, not smelt’

I’ve heard that one before!🤣🤣

travelling on buses on a regular basis, I see parents never speaking to their child but just handing them their mobile phones. Maybe if there was an app for toilet training, then the job would be done?

The very annoying (to adults) Ms Rachel can be used to help I’m sure.

tattygran14

I think the improvements in disposable nappies have stopped any discomfort to the child. If it doesn’t feel wet, they won’t bother.
It reminds me of a teacher who, years ago now, sent a note home about the dreadful smell of an untrained child.
The answer came back ‘I send my Johnny to school to be learnt, not smelt’

Nice use of the past tense though, to be fair.

Bazza I was listening to Jeremy vine as well and couldnt believe that lady she seemed well educated but didn’t seem to have a clue , did she not have family/friends ? I think with the socialists in it will only get worse as the nanny state will become bigger and young parents will excpect someone else to do it

AuntieE, yes, this is what many young mums have told me. A bit of a surprise as mine were potty trained and dry at night from aged two (they then say my memory must be wrong, it is not possible, blablabla). So not before the age of 3- fair enough. What age do children start school???

About 10 years ago I saw a group of 2-3 year olds in pushchairs having their first tennis coaching.I very much doubt this was child led, I just can't imagine a 2 year old insisting on learning raquet skills.
It's odd priorities when toddlers are old enough to learn tennis but not old enough to be on the road to independence with personal care.

I think that letting a normally developing four or five year old start school in nappies is a form of neglect. The modern idea of waiting for "signs of readiness" in a small child is also erroneous in my view. It is called toilet training for a reason. You train your child to recognise the physical signs that signal when they need to relieve themselves and this takes time (and, in my experience chocolate buttons for very short period).

AutieE said In Denmark, young parents have been told by health visitors, kindergarten teachers and their GPs for at least the last nine years (my grandson is nine now) that toilet training is a waste of time before the age of three, because it has been discovered that a hormone that controls the closing and opening of the bladder's spincter is not produced prior to that age.

You wonder if these people cast an eye anywhere else but their own milieu. We’ve lived in developing world countries where nappies are an expensive commodity unaffordable to most. Infants are trained almost from birth to evacuate. Parents are tuned into the signs of needing a wee/poo in their child and the baby is ‘held out’ in an appropriate place.

Of course, their life styles were different from ours, mothers ‘wear’ their babies in cloth slings all day and the very thought of putting a baby into a cot to sleep horrified them. Many mothers worked but the baby went with them, or granny/auntie cared for them and so the baby was given close attention all the time.

It’s all much easier in a warmer climate than ours, though!

That’s true, Growstuff, that nursery workers don’t have to do chores alongside childcare, but it still looks very hard work to me. The ratio in Scotland for carers to children in Scotland is 1:5 for 2-3yos and 1:8 for 3+yrs. That’s a lot of children to look after, when activities have to be prepared and carried out, play supervised, indoors and out, meals provided, arguments resolved, comfort dispensed, reports filled in and all the other events that I see at nursery.

And the noise! The last time I got my GS from nursery, twelve children were ‘making music’ banging saucepan lids with wooden spoon. I came out of there reeling from the din. 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

I’m seeing comments here on GN about disposable nappies causing the problem.

It’s quite possible. After all, even adults can avoid ^bulky pee pants and still feel dry whist being as energetic as young children.

But we can’t go back to terry nappies-think of the time to launder them or the water and fuel to wash them and the problems with drying them without causing condensation that we discuss on GN.

-Comments about parents needing help with parenting and potty training support groups.

- Comments about parents working so they don’t have time to potty train (when would they go to the support groups?),

- Parents constantly on their phones and ignoring their children.

Whilst they’re on the phone, maybe they are googling potty training. There are plenty of links. I wonder if that will be the government support

Fortunately, despite all the reports, most parents do manage it without government input, but I’m keen to see what KS has in mind, who he will appoint to implement it and how it will be monitored.

What will his SMART target (*specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and time-bound* ) include that will enable all the currently untrained, working, time-limited, phone bound parents to quickly produce their toilet trained toddlers?

Wouldn’t make any difference if Sure Start came back, we’ve got Flying Start in Wales and the same problem with children not being ready for school/nursery etc

KG1241

Wouldn’t make any difference if Sure Start came back, we’ve got Flying Start in Wales and the same problem with children not being ready for school/nursery etc

You mustn’t say that!!!

Although, we have family hubs to support parents, with groups and activities covering a wide range of children’s stages and SEND issues, but our Sure Start closed because it was underused.