Southport Murders, latest

Allira

lemsip

isn't this before the courts currently?

Yes, so probably this thread should be deleted as being possibly prejudicial.

My OP showed information from the first page of BBC News website yesterday afternoon.

I thought it was an apt thread for N & P

Unfortunately it is becoming increasingly difficult to have a conversation on GN on anything political…

The accused made no plea. nanna8 who I was responding to, was fantasising

But that's not what your post said. You said There is NO PLEA at all; not that the defendant has made no plea. I wouldn't usually bother with such pedantry but your posts have been so aggressively rude towards posters, who you've no idea of their personal connection to this horrific crime, that I wanted to bring to your attention how unpleasant being on the receiving end of unnecessary rudeness is.

Allira you say

"Too often now, though, we do find that MH problems are offered by the defence and are been accepted as a valid reason for vicious murders. Sometimes, not always, expert witnesses will not agree about this which confuses the case"

Speaking generally, I'm not sure there has been an increase, rather that we now find out more about it, it's discussed more, as it's natural to ask "why!?"

And sadly, the spates of school shootings in the USA have led us to look at the "lone shooter/attacker" things and we've come much more aware of the "why" and ?

Insanity as a plea, or the presentation of criminal psychiatrists reports have been a feature in the courts for a very long time.

Well we were told that he had pleaded ‘not guilty’. Obviously all our news outlets are in error. I wasn’t ‘fantasising’ How rude of you. Totally expected,though.

Totally expected= not guilty plea, not a comment about the poster ! Just to be clear.

nanna8

Well we were told that he had pleaded ‘not guilty’. Obviously all our news outlets are in error. I wasn’t ‘fantasising’ How rude of you. Totally expected,though.

Read the screenshot on the opening post. The accused said nothing at all. It was the judge who entered the not guilty plea.

So the accused had not pleaded anything.

This is the way misinformation spreads.

MaizieD

Grunty

There is NO PLEA at all.
Please read the thread before commenting

"Not guilty pleas have been entered on behalf of Southport stabbing suspect Axel Rudakubana, 18, for the charges of murder of three young girls - Elsie Dot Stancombe, Alice da Silva Aguiar and Bebe King - in the attack at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class."

Please read the news before the commenting.

The accused made no plea. nanna8 who I was responding to, was fantasising.

Every news outlet, here and abroad, which is reporting on this case has stated that the accused had a Not Guilty plea entered on his behalf for all the charges.

He refused to speak in court but that does not mean the Not Guily plea was not presented as his wish.
It was reported that this was his fourth court appearance.

MaizieD

nanna8

Well we were told that he had pleaded ‘not guilty’. Obviously all our news outlets are in error. I wasn’t ‘fantasising’ How rude of you. Totally expected,though.

Read the screenshot on the opening post. The accused said nothing at all. It was the judge who entered the not guilty plea.

So the accused had not pleaded anything.

This is the way misinformation spreads.

It's a fine line and easy to misinterpret.

The defendant has said nothing. A guilty plea cannot be entered on his behalf, obviously.

There was really no need to be rude.

As I understand it, in the absence of a plea from the accused, the judge has no choice but to enter a not-guilty plea on his behalf in order for a fair trial to take place. Surely the alternative would be no trial and a guilty verdict being reached without any requirement to scrutinise the evidence? It’s a safeguard which operates in the accused’s favour, and ensures a fair trial.

Sky, CNN, Channel 4, the Independent, ITVX online or YouTube all have headlines stating that the defendant pleaded not guilty.

So accusing a poster of fantasising is not called for. Perhaps take these outlets to task and get them to correct their headlines?

Other news outlets have used the correct terminology.

nanna8

Lynch mob killings were usually committed against innocent people , particularly black people by white people. There is no comparison with this case. There were lots of witnesses and something evil occurred. Anyone who defends a person committing an act like that is pretty sick and needs to take a good hard look at themself.

I’ve seen no posts defending the accused on here.
Or are you suggesting anyone /lawyer who defends this man needs to take a look at themselves?

srn63, the price for all defendants to be offered a fair trial is the cost we pay for living in this country.
There are citizens in countries all over the world who can only dream of this.
If I, or someone I loved, was accused of a crime, I would want a fair trial, so I must want it for everyone, however heinous the crime and however prolonged and expensive that transpired to be.
There is no alternative in a civilised society.

The accused made no plea. nanna8 who I was responding to, was fantasising.

You really are unnecessarily and abominably rude MaizieD. The news and politics forum would be a far better place, and probably frequented and contributed to by more posters, if you could it tone down a bit. It's particularly distasteful in a topic surrounding such an horrific crime where little children died. Please.

GrannyGravy13

Allira

lemsip

isn't this before the courts currently?

Yes, so probably this thread should be deleted as being possibly prejudicial.

My OP showed information from the first page of BBC News website yesterday afternoon.

I thought it was an apt thread for N & P

Unfortunately it is becoming increasingly difficult to have a conversation on GN on anything political…

Too many wish to show case their 'knowledge' by telling others they are wrong.

Judging by his treatment by the authorities so far, I'm quite sure that the welsh Christian will get the best of British justice.

Good post Namsnanny
GrannyGravy13, you were correct to post in news and politics. Gransnet seems to be mirroring politics here and in the USA in becoming increasingly polarised and where being rather unnecessarily rude is seen as ok.

There are many people who have autism, ADHD etc but they don't go around and kill young children.
Don't send him to Broadmoor or other places that hold the mentally ill.
Send him to a normal prison I'm sure the men from Merseyside will look after him.

The procedure is known as mute of malice where a defendant refuses to speak.
His trial is due to start on Jan. 20 and last for four weeks. Judge Julian Goose confirmed with Rudakubana's lawyer Stan Reiz that "there will be no positive case advanced" on Rudakubana's behalf.

Reuters

Jan 20th, D Trumps inauguration.
It's been mooted that this is a tactic to 'drown out' the information from the court case, against the wall to wall (I presume) coverage from USA.

It could possibly be, but who knows?
It’s certainly an interesting coincidence.

Namsnanny

Jan 20th, D Trumps inauguration.
It's been mooted that this is a tactic to 'drown out' the information from the court case, against the wall to wall (I presume) coverage from USA.

Seriously? Our Court's are barely functioning. Get a slot and take it

Iam64

Namsnanny

Jan 20th, D Trumps inauguration.
It's been mooted that this is a tactic to 'drown out' the information from the court case, against the wall to wall (I presume) coverage from USA.

Seriously? Our Court's are barely functioning. Get a slot and take it

I know, it seems too calculating to be a consideration, doesn't it?

Allira

MaizieD

nanna8

Well we were told that he had pleaded ‘not guilty’. Obviously all our news outlets are in error. I wasn’t ‘fantasising’ How rude of you. Totally expected,though.

Read the screenshot on the opening post. The accused said nothing at all. It was the judge who entered the not guilty plea.

So the accused had not pleaded anything.

This is the way misinformation spreads.

It's a fine line and easy to misinterpret.

The defendant has said nothing. A guilty plea cannot be entered on his behalf, obviously.

There was really no need to be rude.

Always the way, I’m used to it now but thanks, Allira