Cheer up, Bridget, your lucky day is nigh!

Frankly if parents’ budgets are so tight that a rise of 20% in fees would be impossible to meet, then you wonder at the risk they were taking in stretching things so tightly that it sinks the boat.

That is their choice of course, but I would never risk our budget to such an extent. It is irresponsible, to have the child’s education on such a tight wire.

There’s no evidence that children are being withdrawn from private schools mid year as a result of this move, which had been Labour policy for years before they were elected, and the implications of which had been widely publicised and was known about by private schools and parents. It’s time to get real.

But is there any evidence that these private school staff and parents actually voted Labour knowing about these policies?

Freya5

Notagranyet24

Who was it said 'you can't please all of the people all of the time'?
Where I live, I discovered recently that children were being bussed or driven from Swindon to Stroud and vice versa and similarly from Stroud to Cheltenham. Madness. A well funded state school system is surely better value than a few children getting into the private system?
Exclusivity is hardly the way forward to a cohesive society?

So you're all very smug that some children's education has been disrupted, at the start of the exam year for some, people who work two maybe more jobs , sacrifice holidays to give their children the best education, and now, in Reeves own constituency for example, no school places available for these
GCSE children. So what now. This is a nasty vindictive policy, politically orientated, that will not raise said amount of millions, because very many won't be able to afford the rise in fees. Schools will close, putting more children at risk of having no school place to finish their school year. Still not to worry, at least Labour Mps will be able to keep their kids in private education.
All are equal, but some more equal than others eh!!!!

There’s no evidence that children are being withdrawn from private schools mid year as a result of this move, which had been Labour policy for years before they were elected, and the implications of which had been widely publicised and was known about by private schools and parents. It’s time to get real.

‘Well, I don’t know about where their children are being educated but I think parliaments got a greater number of state educated MP’s than before which, for equalities sake, can only be a good thing. Or should state schooled people be not be aspirational politically?

‘Oxbridge still figures predominantly in Starmer’s cabinet, accounting for 40 per cent of appointees, according to the Sutton Trust (that compares with 45 per cent of Sunak’s cabinet in October 2022). The Labour leader completed his undergraduate at the university of Leeds, and his postgrad at Oxford. Only transport secretary Louise Haigh went to private school; comprehensives accounted for 92 per cent. Among the cabinets of both Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss, one in five had gone to a comprehensive.

By contrast to Sunak’s cabinet, the pre-parliamentary experience of Starmer’s top team is balanced more evenly across the private, public and charity sectors, according to Pro Bono Economics.’

Notagranyet24

Who was it said 'you can't please all of the people all of the time'?
Where I live, I discovered recently that children were being bussed or driven from Swindon to Stroud and vice versa and similarly from Stroud to Cheltenham. Madness. A well funded state school system is surely better value than a few children getting into the private system?
Exclusivity is hardly the way forward to a cohesive society?

So you're all very smug that some children's education has been disrupted, at the start of the exam year for some, people who work two maybe more jobs , sacrifice holidays to give their children the best education, and now, in Reeves own constituency for example, no school places available for these
GCSE children. So what now. This is a nasty vindictive policy, politically orientated, that will not raise said amount of millions, because very many won't be able to afford the rise in fees. Schools will close, putting more children at risk of having no school place to finish their school year. Still not to worry, at least Labour Mps will be able to keep their kids in private education.
All are equal, but some more equal than others eh!!!!

Imo it isn’t just about the extra money that may or may not find its way into state education. But about the fact that, if there is no alternative that can be obtained by having more disposable income than other people,it will be in the best interest of everyone to provide every child in this country with the best education they can have so they can fulfil their potential regardless of how wealthy their family are.

escaped

Yes, TheatreLover. This is the jist of what I read on the newspaper stands this morning.
Rachel Reeves confirmed on Sunday that ‘every penny’ of the money raised from ending the VAT break for private education institutions will be invested solely into state schools. In the next year alone, an estimated £1.5 billion will be raised.

That's £1,500,000,000 isn't it? So ÷ by 3 to get the amount per term. I think the clue is in the word estimated.

Yes, as you say, the clue is in the word 'estimated'. It'll certainly be interesting to see how educational services improve over the coming year.

One of our local schools is building on their large site, full time provision for 12 additional needs children, with plans and funding in place.

Aside from the lack of spaces for all children with additional needs, the assessments are so far behind.

My daughter teaches year 1 atm, she has 34 children in her class, two are non-verbal, three others are waiting for their assessments and one has severe issues with behaviour, but no obvious issues. The school laid off some TAs last term, so my daughter has to manage a large class of little ones, with just one TA, who is supposed to be for the one child who is “officially” assessed, with a plan and funding.

Wyllow3

This is difficult to write about on the basis of the O/P not just because of the information given on funding in it

but also saying we should notice a difference in weeks? Difference in what, in weeks?

I also couldn't find up to date information on enrolments in January, just September.

The drop in enrolments in September in private schools was matched by the drop in enrolments in schools overall

"The Independent Schools Council (ISC) said a survey of 1,185 member schools in the UK found their rolls fell by 1.7% when the school year started last month, compared with 2023."

but

" figures for England show that state school enrolments have also been falling, mainly because of the UK’s declining birthrate over the past decade.

The DfE said there was a 2.3% fall in the number of applications for primary school places this September, and a 1.7% fall in secondary school applications. "

(Thats's why there is assessed to be capacity in State Schools)

On the question of the fabric of school buildings, its treated separately from the VAT income which was specifically planned to fund 6.500 extra teachers in state schools. It was increased in the budget.

Information I found on the budget

The 2024-25 UK budget includes a number of funding items for education, including:

Core schools budget: £2.3 billion

(Childcare: £1.8 billion
Further education: £300 million)

Capital funding: £6.7 billion, including £1.4 billion for school rebuilding, £2 billion for school maintenance, and £950 million for skills capital

Teachers' pay award: £827.5 million for 2024-25

Teachers' Pension Scheme employer contribution rate: £1.1 billion for 2024-25

VAT on private school fees: 20% from January 1, 2025

The total funding for schools in England in 2024-25 is £60.7 billion, which is the highest ever in real terms per pupil

We lack full information tho to really discuss it properly?

Thank you for this information, and it is good news that the total spending for state schools for 2024/5 will be the highest in real terms than hitherto.

Whitewavemark2

The question was how can the VAT collected from fee-paying educational businesses.

It can be identified by the press of a button.

No tax is hypothecated of course, but it is a useful tool to use when being questioned about what and where spending is occurring.

There is however a link between policy and tax/spending.

Thank you for your explanation. It is reassuring to know that there is a process whereby the VAT paid on school fees can be diverted to state schools.

Yes, TheatreLover. This is the jist of what I read on the newspaper stands this morning.
Rachel Reeves confirmed on Sunday that ‘every penny’ of the money raised from ending the VAT break for private education institutions will be invested solely into state schools. In the next year alone, an estimated £1.5 billion will be raised.

That's £1,500,000,000 isn't it? So ÷ by 3 to get the amount per term. I think the clue is in the word estimated.

This is difficult to write about on the basis of the O/P not just because of the information given on funding in it

but also saying we should notice a difference in weeks? Difference in what, in weeks?

I also couldn't find up to date information on enrolments in January, just September.

The drop in enrolments in September in private schools was matched by the drop in enrolments in schools overall

"The Independent Schools Council (ISC) said a survey of 1,185 member schools in the UK found their rolls fell by 1.7% when the school year started last month, compared with 2023."

but

" figures for England show that state school enrolments have also been falling, mainly because of the UK’s declining birthrate over the past decade.

The DfE said there was a 2.3% fall in the number of applications for primary school places this September, and a 1.7% fall in secondary school applications. "

(Thats's why there is assessed to be capacity in State Schools)

On the question of the fabric of school buildings, its treated separately from the VAT income which was specifically planned to fund 6.500 extra teachers in state schools. It was increased in the budget.

Information I found on the budget

The 2024-25 UK budget includes a number of funding items for education, including:

Core schools budget: £2.3 billion

(Childcare: £1.8 billion
Further education: £300 million)

Capital funding: £6.7 billion, including £1.4 billion for school rebuilding, £2 billion for school maintenance, and £950 million for skills capital

Teachers' pay award: £827.5 million for 2024-25

Teachers' Pension Scheme employer contribution rate: £1.1 billion for 2024-25

VAT on private school fees: 20% from January 1, 2025

The total funding for schools in England in 2024-25 is £60.7 billion, which is the highest ever in real terms per pupil

We lack full information tho to really discuss it properly?

The question was how can the VAT collected from fee-paying educational businesses.

It can be identified by the press of a button.

No tax is hypothecated of course, but it is a useful tool to use when being questioned about what and where spending is occurring.

There is however a link between policy and tax/spending.

TheatreLover

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

TheatreLover

I had always assumed that VAT paid, from whatever source, is credited to a 'VAT pot'. If this is so, does anyone know if it is possible for the VAT paid on school fees to be transferred to educational services specifically?

HMRC will have that information.

I don't think anything is ever hypothecated.

Thank you MaisieD. I was just following up the OP's comment that 'There should be no excuses about the money needing to be used elsewhere".

It can't be hypothecated because it is spent before the tax is collected

No doubt it is all accounted for, though.

I think Labour should hold any celebration until they know what the extra burden will cost them in the state sector.

My thoughts too.

I think Labour should hold any celebration until they know what the extra burden will cost them in the state sector.

Because of a steadily falling birthrate most schools now have surplus places. I doubt if a few extra children will cause any problems.

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

TheatreLover

I had always assumed that VAT paid, from whatever source, is credited to a 'VAT pot'. If this is so, does anyone know if it is possible for the VAT paid on school fees to be transferred to educational services specifically?

HMRC will have that information.

I don't think anything is ever hypothecated.

Thank you MaisieD. I was just following up the OP's comment that 'There should be no excuses about the money needing to be used elsewhere".

Does this refer to just England?

It is more complex than that, I visit a large number of schools in my work, it is partly staffing, but it is also to do with how resources are allocated, a belief amongst some that those children should be in specialist, (and for some their needs would be best met in specialist) complex family issues, and just sheer numbers. We have all completely ignored the changing profile of children within mainstream schools.

Amongst our daughters circle of friends there are a number that have shelved the idea of a public/private school as it is now not affordable, the VAT is also on school transport and meals.
Other friends have decided to use state primary schools until age 11.

I think Labour should hold any celebration until they know what the extra burden will cost them in the state sector.

Whitewavemark2

TheatreLover

I had always assumed that VAT paid, from whatever source, is credited to a 'VAT pot'. If this is so, does anyone know if it is possible for the VAT paid on school fees to be transferred to educational services specifically?

HMRC will have that information.

I don't think anything is ever hypothecated.

Galaxy

Only those with highly complex needs go to specialist schools in my authority, the others (still with complex needs) are educated within mainstream. For a large section of those children mainstream provision is not working.

It's not working, Galaxy, because the tories systematically cut school budgets to the bone over the past 14 years. My last job was as a support worker in a local secondary school. When I started we had 7 TAs, 2 Learning mentors, regular counsellor visits (weekly) and another 'outside' support worker (I forget what she did). That was in 2000. When I retired in 2013 we'd lost the external support workers, some TAs and the Learning Mentors were on their way out. Thanks to tory budget cuts post 2010.

With the best will in the world a school cannot provide a decent service for special needs children with no staff...

TheatreLover

I had always assumed that VAT paid, from whatever source, is credited to a 'VAT pot'. If this is so, does anyone know if it is possible for the VAT paid on school fees to be transferred to educational services specifically?

HMRC will have that information.

Only those with highly complex needs go to specialist schools in my authority, the others (still with complex needs) are educated within mainstream. For a large section of those children mainstream provision is not working.

Sarnia yes, I remember your past threads. I sympathise.
I've accepted that this would happen, and that it wont be fair for some, and that it is costing me more as a school fee's payer, but I'm trying to see the overall benefits in a different light to my usual fixed tunnelled stance.