Cheer up, Bridget, your lucky day is nigh!

tictacnana

The politics of envy is that of the “ I never had the chance so no one else is going to have it . “ Seems simple enough. It’s human nature - unfortunately. Virtue signalling - “ We’re going to make sure that everyone has the same chances…aren’t we magnanimous- we’re in your side. “ And that goes for private medicine too . “ Look at me … I wouldn’t pay for private medicine for MY family . Aren’t I the working class hero.” Sad really when you think about what they ARE willing to accept .

Hmm. Political ideology rather than affordability is why a lot of people don’t use private schools or private healthcare. Many of them, and us, could no doubt afford to do so if we wished. It’s just as strange that people who couldn’t possibly afford those things and who rely on state provision themselves don’t want to see improved state provision.

👏 Wyllow

And Casdon

Wyllow3

MissAdventure

Of course there isn't.
The politics of equality, I'd call it.

Yes.

As simple as that.

93% of us aren't sitting around indulging in the politics of envy because a small number can afford to go to private schools

- it is what it is, but its reasonable to charge VAT on goods and services to help fund that 93% who after all like everyone need as good as education as can be given in these hard times, as all our children are the future of the country and its well-being.

Exactly so.

The whole ‘politics of envy’ thing has to be projection. People who resent others having what they can’t afford can’t understand that not everyone feels the same.

It’s simple really improve state education, reintroduce grammar schools UK wide.

Then the only need for private education would be those with special educational needs or those who due to their parents profession require boarding schools (whether they be occasional nights, weekly or term)

There never ever will be income and lifestyle parity, if that’s what you are looking for I suggest a move to North Korea.

Doodledog

The whole ‘politics of envy’ thing has to be projection. People who resent others having what they can’t afford can’t understand that not everyone feels the same.

You are jumping to conclusions…

Private schools paying tax will improve state education.
Job done.

ronib

vegansrock unfortunately not every headteacher was up to the job of providing a basic education for every child. You can take a child to water but you can’t make them drink was the motto of my children’s headteacher a very long time ago. So no idea at all about visual issues and reading but just a trite comment. Each child is entitled to the best learning environment whether in private or state schools. End of.

I don’t understand how the first and last bits of this post tie together.

One seems to be suggesting that different children require different approaches, and the other that only some children should be offered those differentiated approaches. Or am I misunderstanding?

And where does ‘end of’ sit in any educational philosophy? That one opinion should shut down all others?

MissAdventure

Private schools paying tax will improve state education.
Job done.

I only wish I had your faith that this VAT will be ringfenced for state education 🤞

I have to have faith.
I voted labour.

Doodledog end of was meant to reinforce the fact that all children are entitled to the best learning environment. You don’t disagree I hope?

When state education is unable to educate children for whatever reason, parents have an obligation to search out educational opportunities to enable adequate levels of learning. If that means eating baked beans for years on end, so be it.

Grammar schools are in no way the answer. We know so much more now about brain development. An IQ test at age eleven is no indication of ability a few years later. That sort of segregation at that age is ridiculous and unkind and useless.

They won't need to, once the private schools start paying their tax.

MissAdventure
Private schools paying tax will improve state education.
Job done.

GrannyGravy13
I only wish I had your faith that this VAT will be ringfenced for state education

Exactly how it will be used (not how they say it will be used) and the impact on state education will be a matter for future observation.
For a start we can expect higher GCSE results attributed to the extra money.

All primary children from rich or poor families, whether they can afford it or not, will be getting a free, nutritionally balanced breakfast, so presumably some of the money will provide both the food and the organisation for administering this.
All the dilapidated buildings will be brought up to a good standard.
All schools will obviously now be able to provide the necessary resources for all subjects.
I’m just grateful that it will help pay for my pay rise.

When a person, or a company or an institution applies to register for VAT they have to include on the form a code which identifies the nature of their work. Thus, HMRC will be able to identify the amount paid by schools.

ronib

Doodledog end of was meant to reinforce the fact that all children are entitled to the best learning environment. You don’t disagree I hope?

When state education is unable to educate children for whatever reason, parents have an obligation to search out educational opportunities to enable adequate levels of learning. If that means eating baked beans for years on end, so be it.

When state education is unable to educate all children well, it needs the funding to enable it to adapt to do so ronib. A child’s life chances should not depend on the ability of parents to pay for private education.

Casdon it shouldn’t in an ideal world but I hope you don’t expect parents to abandon their children if the State system fails them. And the State system is not perfect by any means.

ronib

Doodledog end of was meant to reinforce the fact that all children are entitled to the best learning environment. You don’t disagree I hope?

When state education is unable to educate children for whatever reason, parents have an obligation to search out educational opportunities to enable adequate levels of learning. If that means eating baked beans for years on end, so be it.

I don't disagree that all children (for whatever reason????) should have the best learning environment.

I don't understand the rest of your post. Many parents (including the employees of those who earn enough to buy themselves out of having to eat baked beans) try to search out educational opportunities for their children but can't afford them when they find them.

(what have baked beans to do with things? I tried.)

Doodledog parents go to extreme lengths to pay school fees and that will include eating budget food for example, baked beans and jacket potatoes for example.

I think there are answers to meet the needs of every child outside the private education system ronib, for those with strong parents who advocate for them. I don’t think putting a family into a level of poverty that means they have to live on baked beans to support a child in private education is the right thing for any family, it’s far too stressful, and children are very perceptive. Imagine the guilt you’d feel at 11 years old if you were the cause of that poverty because you ‘didn’t fit’.

I’m speaking from experience, because one of my children really struggled at school, and we had to fight hard for him to be moved to a different school, which was 15 miles away. But… I’m well aware that I’m a mouthy middle class mother who didn’t give up, and could drive him to and from a distant school when the battle was won. It should be possible for all children whatever their needs and background, to have a decent state education, but that can only be achieved with more money, more will - and more input from better educated parents who will drive up standards for everybody by ensuring their own children get a good state education.

ronib

Doodledog parents go to extreme lengths to pay school fees and that will include eating budget food for example, baked beans and jacket potatoes for example.

Yes. But there are many parents for whom that just won't make enough difference.

Are you really unable to see that?

Doodledog yes of course I know that. I have heard though of parents making all kinds of financial sacrifices to pay school fees. It’s not easy at all. To add 20 percent really has pulled the ladder away from the poorer cohort in private education.

It's a matter of living within your means.
If people can't afford private education for their children, well..

Casdon I mostly agree with your post.

I totally agree with choice, and that includes private education.

As a free country we shouldn’t remove things due to some not being able to afford or want them.

It is a fact of life that we all should have the ability to improve our lot and then live within our means

All being equal is a communist pipe dream, totally unworkable and untrue.