Who are we fighting?

escaped

Latin is a strange one.
Coming from a London comp I'd never seen a word of Latin in my life. My unconditional offer at a top university to read French and German came with the insistence that I would need twice weekly Latin lessons, given by some professor at the college. It was just me and one other student, and after half a term the professor gave up on and we on Latin.
I still managed a 2:1 without it!!

I had the same experience! I went to university from a Technical High School and although we studied two modern languages the curriculum didnt include Latin.

I was also admitted to a top university for English without Latin because in 1969 the university had accepted the need to broaden the base of their intake.

Nowadays I'd say that learning a modern European language until 16 could come before Latin.

A knowledge of Latin does form a good basis for learning some modern European languages.

My DN took French and German at university and I'm sure she hadn't learnt Latin at her comprehensive school.

I think thats right, it is a good basis, but I don't think that given the competing needs in a school curriculum Latin is a priority.

Thinking back over the GN threads that have proposed x or y should be in the curriculum

- a need for some kind of civics "how our democracy/judiciary works" is one few disagreed on -

a need for more broad based courses heading towards apprenticships for the non academic pupils another -

a need for proper careers guidance yet another -

bringing back modern language another -

proper support for special needs -

I cant honestly say Latin is more important than these.

I think Starmer is probably the most realistic PM we have had for many years, he knows that government has to find more income to pay for the services and benefits we enjoy.

The population don’t like being told they need to pay more, so his poll rating has fallen.

Totally agree David👏👏👏

a need for more broad based courses heading towards apprenticships for the non academic pupils another

Years ago a friend used to teach mechanics, including car mechanics, at a local comprehensive school. I'm not sure f today's curriculum includes those kinds of subjects.

I'm not sure about the description non-academic pupils - the pupils would still need to take Maths and Physics plus, of course, English, to be able to take that further and gain an apprenticeship.

Should that be at the expense of a Humanity? If pupils have no interest in History, Geography or RE beyond KS3, would a technical subject be more useful?

I agree with David

I'm not sure how horticulture, agriculture courses would work without Latin.There must be plenty of other subjects which require some grasp of Latin but those came to mind first

iirc in the discussions of the chance to take technical subjects not pursue purely academic subjects, I think it was taken for granted that basic subjects had to continue.

David49

I think Starmer is probably the most realistic PM we have had for many years, he knows that government has to find more income to pay for the services and benefits we enjoy.

The population don’t like being told they need to pay more, so his poll rating has fallen.

As far as I am concerned there are two ways to manage a budget.
Yes, get more income, but also cut costs.

I will keep mentioning on this forum, the bat tunnel and it;s like. Just as a for instance.

GNetters seemed to be happy to pay for a £100 million bat tunnel.
I most certainly am not.

There is more than one way to manage money effectively.

Perhaps the general public and GNetters are not in step with this one.

I don’t understand why on a cold day in January, some shops in my local town insist on keeping the shop doors wide open because the store is too warm. When I asked why heat was being wasted, the reply was that the shop had to think of its customers.
Now I do wonder if the whole country is entirely mad?

Wyllow3

iirc in the discussions of the chance to take technical subjects not pursue purely academic subjects, I think it was taken for granted that basic subjects had to continue.

Should we be on the other thread?!

fancythat

MaizieD

fancythat

MaizieD

escaped

fancythat

Is it Starmer that wants to get rid of Latin, and British history?

Yes.
I think he also called visits to museums and art galleries in the curriculum, highbrow pursuits and called to get rid of them too.
Silly use of vocabulary.

Good heavens! Did he really say that ? I don’t believe it. Do you have a source?

I heard snippets of a discussion on GB news.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/labours-decision-to-axe-latin-lessons-is-an-act-of-cultural-vandalism/

How many schools teach latin these days? I think it's been effectively axed for decades...

What other absurdities can the Spectator and GB News (aren't they owned/funded by the same person?) find to get their underwear knotted about, I wonder...

Nothing to stop private schools still teaching it, of course...
Nothing to stop a state school teaching it, either, if they have the resources and the will to do it.

Now, where did the nonsense about museums and art galleries come from?

So that I know for now and another time, which news sources do you reply on please, MaizieD.

The New Statesman, the Financial Tmes, the Guardian, social media (X & Bluesky), By-Line Times (various) random media pieces I see links to that look to be interesting. Nothing paywalled unless I can get round it without having to sign up for anything at all.. some blogs on economics and government, The ether...

The problem is that the education system is skewed to university which suits the top 25% of pupils the rest are left behind they learn very little about work and earning their living when they leave school.
A large number don’t have any realistic idea how they are going to pay the rent or living as an adult, they should bring back practical skills in schools, proper Domestic Science, Woodwork, Metalwork, Electronics etc, not skim over many topics as they do today
Children need to be inspired, shown that they can achieve a practical task, if they are not academic many have no ambition to do anything.

ronib

I don’t understand why on a cold day in January, some shops in my local town insist on keeping the shop doors wide open because the store is too warm. When I asked why heat was being wasted, the reply was that the shop had to think of its customers.
Now I do wonder if the whole country is entirely mad?

There was a campaign a few years ago about keeping shop doors closed to keep the heat in. I followed it on twitter, when twitter was actually twitter. I wonder if it is still active. it's possible that lockdown did for it.

OTOH, talking of lockdown, perhaps it's better for our health that shop doors are left open and some fresh air circulating in the stores, seeing as covid is still circulating unchecked, is still a dangerous disease and, being most definitely airborne, is less likely to be spread in well ventilated areas (which actually applies to any airborne virus)

MaizieD

fancythat

MaizieD

fancythat

MaizieD

escaped

fancythat

Is it Starmer that wants to get rid of Latin, and British history?

Yes.
I think he also called visits to museums and art galleries in the curriculum, highbrow pursuits and called to get rid of them too.
Silly use of vocabulary.

Good heavens! Did he really say that ? I don’t believe it. Do you have a source?

I heard snippets of a discussion on GB news.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/labours-decision-to-axe-latin-lessons-is-an-act-of-cultural-vandalism/

How many schools teach latin these days? I think it's been effectively axed for decades...

What other absurdities can the Spectator and GB News (aren't they owned/funded by the same person?) find to get their underwear knotted about, I wonder...

Nothing to stop private schools still teaching it, of course...
Nothing to stop a state school teaching it, either, if they have the resources and the will to do it.

Now, where did the nonsense about museums and art galleries come from?

So that I know for now and another time, which news sources do you reply on please, MaizieD.

The New Statesman, the Financial Tmes, the Guardian, social media (X & Bluesky), By-Line Times (various) random media pieces I see links to that look to be interesting. Nothing paywalled unless I can get round it without having to sign up for anything at all.. some blogs on economics and government, The ether...

Thanks.

I did wonder if the Guardian is unallowed nowadays.
Surprised X is on the list too.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Please can we bring an end to these huge chains of quotes.

They are ridiculous and unnecessary nd my eyes have glazed over scrolling through the quotes before I reach the one or two lines the poster had added.

You are already on a thread, there is no need to recreate it insode it

wibblywobblywobblebottom

That is the most idiotic comment I've read for a long long time. And you're still alive. Shame. Protecting the NHS meant more than banging saucepan lids you witless moron. I should know, I worked for the NHS.

which comment?

Monica, I'm sure you couldn't quote more than a couple of posts previously

Politicians seem to feel the need to say something even if it is trite or purile. Just ignore them.

It is hard to get to the bottom of the long quotes, but as far as I can make out it was asking where is the evidence/origins of the claim that Starmer wants to get rid of British History and want to ban visits to museums I'd still like to know. (it was Latin as well, but we've covered that).

Our enemy is our government….

David49

I think Starmer is probably the most realistic PM we have had for many years, he knows that government has to find more income to pay for the services and benefits we enjoy.

The population don’t like being told they need to pay more, so his poll rating has fallen.

Nice idea, but his poll rating has fallen, first because he and a number of his senior ministers were found to be free loading, and secondly for the cack handed way they dealt with WFA, note I say how they dealt with it, not that they did it. I think there was broad agreement across all groups, including those likely to be most affected that WFA for higher income groups was indefensible, but the way it was suddenly announced and implemented, causing real hardship for those whose incomes were just over the PC level, showed stupudity at the highest level.

OK, in the interests of accuracy, and because if I'm wrong on GN, I'll say I am : the words I read came from a professor in my neck of the woods at Exeter University. He has been advising the Labour Government on its new education strategy which I have been following. Apologies, it's not Keir Starmer's words, but here's what his close advisor said ......

"Cultural initiatives in schools have prioritised middle-class pursuits – visits to museums, theatres and high-brow art galleries."

He continues, "alongside school trips to visit high-art forms, children should be taught about other cultural activities whether it be grime and rap music or brass bands."

So there it is, from He who advises The Department of Education's Schools Strategy, and who gives his input on the upcoming review of education.

Apologies again, but watch this space for politicians' comments about making the curriculum more "relevant" by "cutting down on theatre and museum trips".

David49

The problem is that the education system is skewed to university which suits the top 25% of pupils the rest are left behind they learn very little about work and earning their living when they leave school.
A large number don’t have any realistic idea how they are going to pay the rent or living as an adult, they should bring back practical skills in schools, proper Domestic Science, Woodwork, Metalwork, Electronics etc, not skim over many topics as they do today
Children need to be inspired, shown that they can achieve a practical task, if they are not academic many have no ambition to do anything.

Why, then, is there a competition for courses teaching such subjects at FE colleges?
Is it because there is not enough availability of colleges offering these subjects?

Perhaps more such technical and practical courses are needed which will lead to qualifications in skills which the country needs.