Democracy under threat

Good link here on reasons for populism surge since 2000: theconversation.com/populist-parties-thrive-on-discontent-the-data-proves-it-242278

Interesting to see the responses on this thread!
There is a constant battle between those who have their own agenda and those who want decency and common sense to prevail. Presently it is between globalists and nationalists. Too many people want to dispense with individual countries and create one world. They have been watching too much Star Trek. It just won't work and the sooner they face up to that, the better.

My concern is with the growing influence of social media, and Musk controls and influences a great deal of that.
I don't believe many of the populace has an education 'level' of nine, but increasing numbers of people rely on quick news flashes for information rather than reading articles , journals, books etc and watching and listening to the news and thinking, before repeating it as fact.

KateW19

They’re banning various books in right leaning states across the US, anything considered too progressive by the right wing so called Christian populists

And 🤷‍♀️ I think you’ll find that the majority of the British population don’t give a FF what happens in the US.

And that's part of the problem! (Response to Petra)

KateW19

What is it that appeals to you about Nigel Farage? Is it that he seems approachable? Or is it specific pledges that you feel would improve yours or your family’s lives?

He " tells it as it is" , likes a pint, dislikes brown people and wants to make Britain Great again.

There you go!

Galaxy

I think you will find that it was democracy that led to Trumps victory, it is always awful when people wont vote the way you want them to isnt it.

I think you will find that democracy based on lies is no democracy, but an opportunistic or unscrupulous power grab for dictatorship.

It seems they want to add empire building to this as well.

Democracy has always been based, if not on lies, then on at least doctoring the truth. Trump is not be the first leader to get in on a populist vote and certainly will not be the last.

I don't doubt you are right MOnica.

However, I'm not sure if you think we should, therefore, just let it happen or if you think we should try to find the truth and, if necessary, stand against the attacks on our democracy.

Or you could have felt you were just trying to balancing the discussion ...

Surely the issue is that while Trump won the US election, he didn't win any election in the UK. Like it or not, the Labour Party won a democratic election last year. The UK is a sovereign country and nobody has the right to tell the UK that the PM and a minister should be in jail or that somebody shouldn't be in jail for contempt of court. Musk has been hitting out at Gordon Brown now.

PoliticalNerd Too often what you are saying is essential saying my side has the attributes of truth and virtue, and the other people are liars - and they are saying the same.

TerriBull

Presumably learned lofty Oxford friend doesn't include herself as having a 9 year old's brain, well clearly that's not the case because she's a DrPhil. so its just the lumpen proletariat then, the ones that don't vote the way they should, stupid people. Should they even have the vote? maybe they should sit some sort of basic Key Stage 2 test at least to prove they can read the names of the candidates on the ballot paper, or heaven knows where they might stick their cross. It's really hard trying to get people with stunted intellect to vote properly a bit like corralling sheep

😄
I maybe a prole but object to being called lumpen, tho it’s true I did put a bit of weight on due to immense amounts of mince pies consumed.
Glad we just have to put an X by a candidate’s name as I can’t write my name or theirs.

M0nica

PoliticalNerd Too often what you are saying is essential saying my side has the attributes of truth and virtue, and the other people are liars - and they are saying the same.

I'm sorry but I can't really make out whst you mean MOnica. So I am guessing it's:

Too often what you are saying is essential(ly) "my side has the attributes of truth and virtue, and the other people are liars" - and they are saying the same."

If I've got that right, could you give me an example?

Thanks.

TerriBull
Your suggestion that the great unwashed should take a test to ascertain if they are capable of reading was a serous suggestion put up by a few members here in the run up to the Brexit vote 😱

growstuff

Surely the issue is that while Trump won the US election, he didn't win any election in the UK. Like it or not, the Labour Party won a democratic election last year. The UK is a sovereign country and nobody has the right to tell the UK that the PM and a minister should be in jail or that somebody shouldn't be in jail for contempt of court. Musk has been hitting out at Gordon Brown now.

True, Musk is now on a roll, putting out tweets here there and everywhere.He should be ignored as the troll he is and not engaged with by senior politicians.

nanna8

My experience here is it is the extremist left groups who are educationally challenged just as much as, if not more than, the extreme right. I think the clue is the word ‘extreme’. The left ones seem to be a lot more violent for some reason which is something different these days. They are awful, totally intolerant.

Which extreme left wing groups are you thinking of?

Graceless

nanna8

My experience here is it is the extremist left groups who are educationally challenged just as much as, if not more than, the extreme right. I think the clue is the word ‘extreme’. The left ones seem to be a lot more violent for some reason which is something different these days. They are awful, totally intolerant.

Which extreme left wing groups are you thinking of?

Socialist Alternative perhaps?

KateW19

It’s not the teachers fault, it’s underfunding

You took my remark seriously?

You believe whole swathes of the population have an educational level of Y4 or 5?

Allira

Graceless

nanna8

My experience here is it is the extremist left groups who are educationally challenged just as much as, if not more than, the extreme right. I think the clue is the word ‘extreme’. The left ones seem to be a lot more violent for some reason which is something different these days. They are awful, totally intolerant.

Which extreme left wing groups are you thinking of?

Socialist Alternative perhaps?

I had to Google Socialist Alternative, which seems to be an American organisation. I skimmed through their website and I wouldn't think they are educationally challenged - idealist and perhaps a bit naive perhaps.

M0nica

Democracy has always been based, if not on lies, then on at least doctoring the truth. Trump is not be the first leader to get in on a populist vote and certainly will not be the last.

So many facts are hidden from the general oublic, not just by right wing governments but by all.

Just for reference, I dislike Trump's rhetoric, find Musk quite frightening and voted Labour.
But I prefer not to align myself with some of the truly arrogant views expressed in some posts on here.

It's a lesson in how not to win hearts and minds if those with different views think they are so despised.

growstuff

Allira

Graceless

nanna8

My experience here is it is the extremist left groups who are educationally challenged just as much as, if not more than, the extreme right. I think the clue is the word ‘extreme’. The left ones seem to be a lot more violent for some reason which is something different these days. They are awful, totally intolerant.

Which extreme left wing groups are you thinking of?

Socialist Alternative perhaps?

I had to Google Socialist Alternative, which seems to be an American organisation. I skimmed through their website and I wouldn't think they are educationally challenged - idealist and perhaps a bit naive perhaps.

It's Australian, growstuff.
I think nanna8 is in Australia.

However, it's worrying when extremist groups of any persuasion take a hold.

Just read that the Duke of Marlborough is offering to hold a meeting between Nige and Musk at Blenheim Palace. Apparently he is a Reform supporter. Good to know its not just lumpen proles like me who support Reform! He must be concerned about what is happening to this country too.

That’s the problem with democracy. It takes all sorts. As Churchill said it’s the better of the political systems. As a well educated person I guess I must be deranged to even think about voting Reform. Years ago they put unmarried girls who became pregnant in lunatics asylums because they had to be mentally unstable to get into that condition! We no longer subscribe to that mistaken logic thank goodness.

I might agree with some of what Farage says but as a snob I can’t stand seeing him with a glass of beer in one hand and a fag in the other. Shudder! Is he trying to look working class and what right do I have to label him. Too many labels tossed around indiscriminately.

Allira

I can't think, can't think, it's too hard.
Way past my bedtime.

My Enid Blyton awaits. Tonight it's 5 Go To Mar a Lago.
😂😂😂

I'm reading about Darrell Rivers having fun at Malory Trump Towers.
It's ever so good.

Was Darrell Rivers at Trump Tower any good,?I had a disquieting time last night with "5 Go to Mar a Lago" the books just aren't what I remember, there have been huge changes in the lives of the previously damn decent 5. Julian's turned into a proper right wing prick individual joining the pro gun lobby during their time in the US and arguing guns are something that he and his brother Dick head are increasingly going to need whilst endeavouring to clear up crime on nearby Kirran Island, and as Enid was prone to let the reader know, wrong doings were so often perpetrated by swarthy, foreigners. Lashings of ginger beer, and tongue sandwiches as made by cook are not enough when trying to penetrate gangs of foreign nationals hell bent on flooding not only Kirran Island but the entire country with Spice and Crack Cocaine. Ann, wisely doesn't get involved, well she was always "only a girl" anyway, but she's now a highly successful influencer specialising in pumped up lips and butt lifts for the older woman, easily accessed on "@Ann'sAmbiguousAddons" The sad thing is that they all more or less present with not so much the brains they were born with all that private education too, but seemingly at 73, 71 and 69 respectively they're as mutton thick as they were at 9 years old, one only has to look at their political leanings to work that out. Their cousin boy dressing girl George has distanced from them as they have refused to use their preferred pronouns "they/them". Lovely golden haired dog Timmy has long since passed on to the great kennel in the sky and has been replaced by XL Bully Vinny. Unfortunately there was a nasty incident at Mar a Lago when one of Vinny's triggers, "anything that glows orange", prone to send him into a feeding frenzy, took one look at Trump and bit a lump out of a fleshy areas, plenty to choose from although it was reported whatever he got his canines into he quickly regurgitated. Anyway Trump has sent the sorry group packing over the state line into the 51st state, known as Canada. Fortunately for them, Trudeau has recently resigned, so they should be safe there for a while.Lets hope they don't return

The key is the word ‘extremist’ really. Most are not, thank goodness. I haven’t come across anyone on here who is ( ok, maybe the odd one ) but whether left or right they tend to be very inconsiderate of anyone who doesn’t align with their personal views.