Why do you support Labour?

GrannyGravy13

Casdon

Perspective. When Williamson announced the LEP in 2021 the subject was being taught at just 2.7 per cent of state schools. So we are blaming Labour for overseeing a decline in Latin education.

I am not blaming Labour for the decline in Latin education.

I am blaming Labour for removing choice.

But 97.3% of schools weren’t teaching Latin, so only 2.7% of schools were. Schools that wish to do so can continue, it’s not being banned, it’s just not funded as an initiative, as it wasn’t before 2021 anyway.

I'm preparing to don my hard hat now but while we are agreeing that we are all able to voice our opinions without goading, I would like to know where the line is drawn between penalising those who have worked and studied hard to earn a good living and redistribution of the wealth of those with the 'broadest shoulders'

Good idea Nanny:

"---where the line is drawn between penalising those who have worked and studied hard to earn a good living and redistribution of the wealth of those with the 'broadest shoulders'"

Don't you agree that inherited great wealth is a good place to begin. Land use and ownership in this country is not a good system and is feudal in some places.

flappergirl

Because the Tories have always resisted and actively voted against any work place or social reform, including the NHS. If it was left to them, children would still be working and losing limbs in mills, mines and factories. There'd be no welfare safety net either including state pensions. As Aneurin Bevan once said "they are lower than vermin". I could go on, but basically that, my dear, is why the Labour Party was formed and why I will always vote for them.

What justification have you ,or proof for saying that.
There are non so blind as those that won't see,what an utter disaster this Labour government is proving to be for this country.
Why do you think Starmer has sunk so low in the polls.
It doesn't matter what you or other Labour voters blithely churn out, the only reason they got in was a lack of decent party.
80% of the population voted against Labour, choosing other parties instead.
Starmer is a very weak leader.

Caleo

Good idea Nanny:

"---where the line is drawn between penalising those who have worked and studied hard to earn a good living and redistribution of the wealth of those with the 'broadest shoulders'"

Don't you agree that inherited great wealth is a good place to begin. Land use and ownership in this country is not a good system and is feudal in some places.

Do you own your own home?
Should all housing belong to the State and redistributed according to need?

I do think the Labour Government needs to be given a chance even though they do seem to be scoring some own goals so far.

However, looking at some Labour-run Councils, fairness and equality do not seem to be on their agenda, let alone common sense. There was an item on the news last night regarding housing about a family in Birmingham that had me weeping with rage.

Is it just that we are producing more and more incompetent politicians now? Or has it always been thus and the public was unaware?

Should all the money someone has managed to save by working hard for many years, and the house the mortgage on which was paid for by their hard work, be taken away by the State for redistribution when they die? I believe there are many who would say Yes to that (I am not one of them by the way).

ronib

Wwm2 since you are a Labour enthusiast, do you understand/agree that Latin should be dropped as a subject in all State schools? I guess it was introduced by the Conservatives but some pupils might be really enjoying the subject. So why does it have to be the privilege of the privately educated?

It is absolutely untrue that Latin is being dropped as a subject in all state schools.

The Latin Excellence Programme only funds Latin in 40 state schools anyway.

GrannyGravy13

Iam64

Grannygravy I’m sure the rest of us want the best opportunities for all children. I’m struggling with adding Latin to a curriculum weighted to academic subjects. We have many children who feel like failures because of dyslexia, adhd, dyspraxia, neglectful home lives -I’m sure you recognise this but I can’t not fkag

I think our education system needs a total rethink.

There should be an option to choose Trades as well as GCSE subjects in year 9.

The system as it stands just sets up a percentage of our young people to fail, that feeling of failure can remain throughout their lives.

I agree. In fact I think for fairness and inclusivity vocational education should be valued alongside and equal to an academic education. Many of the ‘old’ polytechnics still offer vocational courses. Many have grown and improved links with local employers so that students get the benefit of working and learning. This should be encouraged. Modern apprenticeships are the way, imo.

So that’s 40 state schools whose pupils won’t have the opportunity to study the subject?

Barleyfields

So that’s 40 state schools whose pupils won’t have the opportunity to study the subject?

No, they can still teach Latin if they choose to do so.

Funding?

Casdon

Barleyfields

So that’s 40 state schools whose pupils won’t have the opportunity to study the subject?

No, they can still teach Latin if they choose to do so.

Exactly! I read the official evaluation of the programme, which hasn't been spectacularly successful. Pupils' attitudes to the subject became increasingly negative as they progressed through the course and about half couldn't see any relevance in it.

Schools will still be able to offer Latin if they can fit it into their curriculum, have the resources and there's a demand. It's not being banned.

Barleyfields

Funding?

If there's a demand, funding can come from the school's budget. My son studied Latin at a state comprehensive from 2010-2015. He studied Latin GCSE in place of a technical/creative subject, so there was no extra funding.

It seems to be quite clear that a number of posters don't have any idea about what goes on in state education. If they did they wouldn't make ridiculous assertions about it.

Mollygo

Oreo

The voter/member of any political party who can’t bring themselves to disagree with any of the choices and policies put forward is acting in a tribal way, it happens and you see it on many forums.

👏👏👏👏👏

Agreed, if they disagree with any of the choices and policies. If, OTOH, after a few months (and these accusations of tribalism started within days of the election) then why should they pretend otherwise?

I have seen plenty of comments from Labour supporters on here expressing uncertainty about policies. They aren't usually expressed in terms of comic characters, and they don't use insults copied from elsewhere, but I definitely get the impression that people can think for themselves. It is very insulting to suggest otherwise.

I suppose some of us are out of touch with it Maizie, unless we are/were teachers or they have grandchildren who are of secondary school age/have recently left school. Mine aren’t there yet so I rely on what I read and hear.

I am an old school type of Labour supporter, but I can't really accept that Starmer's party is what I would call "real" Labour. He and Reeves seem to continue with Conservative policies. For example, they want to take money away from disability benefits. The primary reson for this is simply to save money quickly, by pushing disabled people into poverty a la George Osborne. I also cannot get over the fact that Starmer removed the whip from some of his M Ps because they cared about child poverty.
If they had a bit more courage they could take a bit more money from companies that dont like paying towards the services that they and their employees rely on.
So much as I would like to support the Labour party I find that I just can't do it while Starmer and Reeves are deciding policy, and that makes me sad frankly.

Barleyfields

Funding?

The schools that are teaching it were doing so before the additional funding was announced, so if they want to continue to allocate funding to carry on they can. They haven’t lost anything.

Thanks Casdon. I hope they are able to do that rather than give pupils of independent schools an advantage in whatever circumstances Latin may still be required in order to study for some degrees, as was my experience many years ago.

Barleyfields

Thanks Casdon. I hope they are able to do that rather than give pupils of independent schools an advantage in whatever circumstances Latin may still be required in order to study for some degrees, as was my experience many years ago.

It was my experience nearly 60 years ago, Barleyfields but it hasn't been so for decades.

If Latin is needed for some subjects it's usually of a very simple nature, not the entire language, vocabulary, grammar etc. If someone is of sufficient ability to gain a place at university they should be able to learn the simple Latin that may be required for their subject. They're not exactly being required to read the complete body of Latin literature.

I made my comment because I sometimes think that many Gnettter's experience of education has been via private schooling.

Casdon The Latin Excellence programme has had funding removed. I was under the impression that State schools were being deprived of adequate funding and that budgets are very tight. Don’t forget the £22 billion black hole. So exactly where is the funding for Latin?

ronib, the funding issues are addressed above.

To you maybe Casdon - clear as mud to me. What happened to the £4 million funding meant to last until 2026 - given by the Conservatives in 2021 for the Latin Excellence Programme?

Let’s all hope the govt continues to baffle or annoy you ronib

Iam64 why would you hope that? So do you understand where the money went from the Latin programme or do you simply not care? Bit New Labour?