Trump and Vance attack womens health rights

And people on GN support these misogynists. Unbelievable in 21st century US.

It really is valuable to read the list of states and their policies to realise just how draconian these bans are - just take the first one, Alabama

"ALABAMA - Banned. The Human Life Protection Act, which compares abortion to historical genocides, was passed in 2019, but only came into force after the Supreme Court ruling. Anyone convicted of performing an abortion faces up to life in prison. There are no exceptions for rape or incest.

So we have a federal government who allows States to proceed in this way BUT will not prosecute anti-abortion activists who block entrance in states where its allowed, or have attacked women wanting abortions.

I think I posted yesterday, that if I was pregnant now, I would not tell a soul - especially if I lived in some states, where women have been penalised for miscarrying.

I don’t think we realise how much The First Amendment comes into play. For example, In UK police arrest someone for a silent prayer outside an abortion clinic. Under the First Amendment that could not happen in the States.

I think that the main difference is that women in the U.K. have relative autonomy over their own bodies, in the USA they don’t.

And I think that the anti-abortionists in the USA will be hard pushed to find an abortion clinic to pray outside.

In an article I read online, someone pointed out if a person is male or female from conception, then all Americans are female as for the first six weeks it is the female part that develops.
Other people have pointed out that if a man masturbates and ejaculates then he is denying a human life being created.
I do love these twists. This scenario will run and run.

25Avalon

I don’t think we realise how much The First Amendment comes into play. For example, In UK police arrest someone for a silent prayer outside an abortion clinic. Under the First Amendment that could not happen in the States.

Charges were dropped in that case.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gze361j7xo

However the article does raise relevant points about what is intrusive/bullying to women and what is acceptable. The article makes clear it partly depends on local authorities.

In the article it alludes to possible plans to have a "buffer zone" around clinics in law so women can go free of any pressures. Many of these clinics offer other series like vasectomies to men so the picture isnt simple.

Devorgilla

In an article I read online, someone pointed out if a person is male or female from conception, then all Americans are female as for the first six weeks it is the female part that develops.
Other people have pointed out that if a man masturbates and ejaculates then he is denying a human life being created.
I do love these twists. This scenario will run and run.

The for the first six weeks it is the female part that develops. is total rubbish. These people have no understanding of biology, and what the sry gene is and its function. Your sex is determined at conception, each sperm is genetically coded for either male or female, there isn't a sudden switch from female to male.

I should have made it clear I do not agree with the banning of abortion rights.

Shocking and horrifying.

It’ll simply lead to underground, back streets abortion, women dying, babies born into awful situations and many more babies in danger

Cossy

Shocking and horrifying.

It’ll simply lead to underground, back streets abortion, women dying, babies born into awful situations and many more babies in danger

Very true.
Taking away women’s rights like this is a backwards step that could lead anywhere, and nowhere good for women.

Back to the 60's then. Let's hope there's another Gloria Steinem waiting in the wings .

Cossy

Shocking and horrifying.

It’ll simply lead to underground, back streets abortion, women dying, babies born into awful situations and many more babies in danger

Absolutely agree.
This will lead to untold hardship and misery for so many women.

As I understand it, the Roe v Wade case put the federal government in charge of abortion rights. The recent change (overturning) of this gave the problem (and the law-making) back to individual states where it had been originally in accordance with the US Constitution which was supposed to limit the powers of the federal government to things like defence of the nation.

So whatever is happening now is not down to Trump and Vance whatever their personal positions on the issues are. People should be targetting their state governments if they want to change the law on access to abortion (euphemistically called "right to reproductive health" or some such).

Barleyfields

And people on GN support these misogynists. Unbelievable in 21st century US.

iirc, from what I have read, GN supporters of Trump don't necessarily agree with these policies on Womens Health matters.

I am not sure that our finest right as women is to be able to murder the life within us. Many cultures believe that the soul enters the body at a certain point, at about six weeks of pregnancy, and I think they may be right. People have a right to pray for these unborn souls, outside abortion clinics. If our whole culture were turned upside down and motherhood were given the status it should have, fewer women would want terminations. The trend, which is apparently taking place in some areas, to abort later and later in pregnancy I find disgusting. I think we need to widen the discussion, respectfully and sensitively. Promiscuity and serial abortions are not a lifestyle choice to be encouraged. Many women are emotionally scarred for life by abortion. I am also wondering where the 'morning after' pill comes in all of this? Can't young women be encouraged to respect their bodies a bit more, and get sensibly prepared? Personally, I do not believe in abortion after the placenta has taken over, at about 14 weeks. There are times in life when you make a mistake and you have to live with it, and I've never heard anyone say they regret having a child (although I cannot know what they think) whereas many regret the abortion.

I view the democrats policies on gender issues as misogyny on steroids so for me it was a case of misogynists on the right and misogynists on the left and me in the middle.
I dont support Trump so I dont fall into Wyllows group on GN, but I would not have voted democrat either.

Baggs

As I understand it, the Roe v Wade case put the federal government in charge of abortion rights. The recent change (overturning) of this gave the problem (and the law-making) back to individual states where it had been originally in accordance with the US Constitution which was supposed to limit the powers of the federal government to things like defence of the nation.

So whatever is happening now is not down to Trump and Vance whatever their personal positions on the issues are. People should be targetting their state governments if they want to change the law on access to abortion (euphemistically called "right to reproductive health" or some such).

Trump could intervene as part of rights and funding for health provision in the broadest sense across the nation. I don't agree there is "nothing to be done". Vance has made many anti abortion statements and said at the rally

"At Anti-Abortion Rally, Vice President JD Vance Says He Wants "More Babies" In US"
www.ndtv.com/world-news/at-anti-abortion-rally-vice-president-jd-vance-says-he-wants-more-babies-in-us-7554444

Trump has changed what he says over time, basically I dont think he cares about women as long as he has power.

I would always support a safe medical and legal abortion. My sister, in the 50s/early 60s, worked on the wards were patients of botched back street abortion were taken. Despite being a devout Christian she was so shocked by what she saw that to this day she too supports safe abortion. That's not to say that abortion should be used lightly but it is necessary.
Thank you David Steel.

I am passionate about a woman's right to choose.
I will tell, once more, the story that I have told before.
Two women I know found , at a routine scan, that their eagerly anticipated second child had a condition that was not compatible with life.
One elected to terminate and one went through to delivery: the baby lived three days.
In the middle of this terrible experience, which have, I know, stayed with the families forever, who has any right to take away the rights of either woman?!
Oh, and had the baby survived a little longer, it would have had every medical need met by the NHS. This is certainly not true in the USA.
I respect anyone saying that it's not something they would do, but they should give the same respect for the autonomy of everyone over their body.

The issue is also that the reproductive health clinics which are being picketed etc., also deal with contraception and general female reproductive health such as smear tests etc. Is the next step banning the use of IUDs? Or banning sterilisation for women?

undines

I am not sure that our finest right as women is to be able to murder the life within us. Many cultures believe that the soul enters the body at a certain point, at about six weeks of pregnancy, and I think they may be right. People have a right to pray for these unborn souls, outside abortion clinics. If our whole culture were turned upside down and motherhood were given the status it should have, fewer women would want terminations. The trend, which is apparently taking place in some areas, to abort later and later in pregnancy I find disgusting. I think we need to widen the discussion, respectfully and sensitively. Promiscuity and serial abortions are not a lifestyle choice to be encouraged. Many women are emotionally scarred for life by abortion. I am also wondering where the 'morning after' pill comes in all of this? Can't young women be encouraged to respect their bodies a bit more, and get sensibly prepared? Personally, I do not believe in abortion after the placenta has taken over, at about 14 weeks. There are times in life when you make a mistake and you have to live with it, and I've never heard anyone say they regret having a child (although I cannot know what they think) whereas many regret the abortion.

I think many many regret having both terminations and having unplanned/unwanted babies.

I don’t think there would have many circumstances where I would have had a termination, but I respect every other woman’s right to have one, irrespective of their reasons.

undines

Your language about terminations, murder the life within us, shows you have no understanding of the very real issues some women face.

Suppose you are 16 and pregnant via incest/rape (much more common than you’d think) You’d say this 16 year old is a murderer Would that also apply to the doctor carrying out this procedure?

Baggs

As I understand it, the Roe v Wade case put the federal government in charge of abortion rights. The recent change (overturning) of this gave the problem (and the law-making) back to individual states where it had been originally in accordance with the US Constitution which was supposed to limit the powers of the federal government to things like defence of the nation.

So whatever is happening now is not down to Trump and Vance whatever their personal positions on the issues are. People should be targetting their state governments if they want to change the law on access to abortion (euphemistically called "right to reproductive health" or some such).

We can blame Trump 100 percent as he appointed the conservative judges that overturned Roe vs Wade . Don’t try to whitewash Trump from the travesty of his actions .