The Guardian reports that Trump says all Palestinians should move out of Gaza

Maremia

There is a lot of 'chatter' about how did the Israeli authorities miss the signs of of the impending attack. If that is they case, they were not 'lax', they were negligent.

Not that old accusation again!
Whatever happens, it’s apparently always the Jews to blame.
No wonder they fight back!

maddyone

Maremia

There is a lot of 'chatter' about how did the Israeli authorities miss the signs of of the impending attack. If that is they case, they were not 'lax', they were negligent.

Not that old accusation again!
Whatever happens, it’s apparently always the Jews to blame.
No wonder they fight back!

Widely reported in the media, including Haaretz, Jerusalem Post, The Times of Israel, New York Times, the BBC. In fact, international media.

It's not 'chatter', it's hard fact and a disgraceful episode.

A whole page of search results here. Contemporary reports

duckduckgo.com/?q=Isreali+spotters+reports+ignored+oct+2023&t=chromentp&ia=web

maddyone

Maremia

There is a lot of 'chatter' about how did the Israeli authorities miss the signs of of the impending attack. If that is they case, they were not 'lax', they were negligent.

Not that old accusation again!
Whatever happens, it’s apparently always the Jews to blame.
No wonder they fight back!

No! I'm not blaming Israel! Of course Hamas was responsible for the attack. I was merely reporting what apparently happened and how Hamas was able to break through the border defences.

Babs03

The elephant in the room of course is that Palestinians have a homeland, they don't need to move in with neighbours. Just because they are Arabs doesn't mean they should be happy to leave their homeland and live in another country peopled by Arabs. And Trump can say all he likes about Gaza being a bomb site so the Palestinians need to get out in order for the strip to be rebuilt, to Palestinians that means get out and stay out, there will be no right to return.

Egyptians have a very different genetic and cultural background from Palestinians, who are Levantine Arabs. Egyptians have a more diverse background, which includes European ancestry. In any case (as others have pointed out) Palestinians have a home.

Anniebach

Why should Israel hold an enquiry asking why they didn’t defend themselves from terrorist attacks ? unbelievable

Of course they should! There was a security failure and I'm sure they don't want to repeat it. It's mind-boggling that you think that's unbelievable.

Am reminded of discussions about a rape case.

Woman raped ? Her skirt too short, she was out her own
after dark, etc

Now it’s Israel attacked by Hamas

Blame the victim not the perpetrator ,

GrannyGravy13

growstuff

Anniebach

Really? How did Hamas capture hostages, invade Israel 7th
October 2023 ?

Because there was a security breakdown. Senior officers didn't listen to their juniors, who had spotted increased activity.

Security breakdown or not.

Hamas are guilty of the most unspeakable atrocities.

Hamas head honchos knew full well that Israel would react with all that was available to them.

Hamas protected its fighters, not the civilian population.

Israel protects it’s citizens.

It didn't protect the soldiers in the look-out posts who spotted irregularities across the border.

Anniebach

Am reminded of discussions about a rape case.

Woman raped ? Her skirt too short, she was out her own
after dark, etc

Now it’s Israel attacked by Hamas

Blame the victim not the perpetrator ,

Maybe you should drop the word "blame" and look at the facts to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I do look at facts, you are laying blame on the victim

Anniebach

Am reminded of discussions about a rape case.

Woman raped ? Her skirt too short, she was out her own
after dark, etc

Now it’s Israel attacked by Hamas

Blame the victim not the perpetrator ,

Who isn't blaming the perpetrator here?
People say time and again that Hamas were to blame for the attack on the inncent victims on Oct 7th.
I personally haven't read a single post where a commenter has said that the members of Hamas who perpetrated the massacre were the victims.
It has got to the point where we can't say anything without being accused of not mentioning what Hamas did.
Mentioning that security was not as tight as usual along that border on Oct 7th is not saying that Hamas are victims or Israelis were to blame, on the documentary about the terrible massacre it was actually said by those who tried to alert the authorities that there were failings.
If we can't have sensible adult conversations about this there really is a problem here.

Anniebach

I do look at facts, you are laying blame on the victim

No, I'm not! That's your twisted way of thinking.

You are not reading all posts

Babs03

Anniebach

Am reminded of discussions about a rape case.

Woman raped ? Her skirt too short, she was out her own
after dark, etc

Now it’s Israel attacked by Hamas

Blame the victim not the perpetrator ,

Who isn't blaming the perpetrator here?
People say time and again that Hamas were to blame for the attack on the inncent victims on Oct 7th.
I personally haven't read a single post where a commenter has said that the members of Hamas who perpetrated the massacre were the victims.
It has got to the point where we can't say anything without being accused of not mentioning what Hamas did.
Mentioning that security was not as tight as usual along that border on Oct 7th is not saying that Hamas are victims or Israelis were to blame, on the documentary about the terrible massacre it was actually said by those who tried to alert the authorities that there were failings.
If we can't have sensible adult conversations about this there really is a problem here.

You're right. There really is a problem when people try to shut down facts.

Also can we please refer to the authorities and government as Israeli and not Jewish.
If we are to remain objective that is.

Babs03

Also can we please refer to the authorities and government as Israeli and not Jewish.
If we are to remain objective that is.

Well said!

Reminds of poster saying ‘Zionists are not Jews, then really attacked Zionists ‘

growstuff

Anniebach

I do look at facts, you are laying blame on the victim

No, I'm not! That's your twisted way of thinking.

NONE of us are, and we ALL denounce totally what happened on October 7th.

This thread is about the people of Gaza- being told to leave, yet again, their own country, after it has been bombed to smithereens and so many thousands died.

Today is not the day for this discussion, out of respect for the Holocaust memorial, so will sign out. But it is no-one's fault here that what Trump said happens to be known today of all days.

Refusing to acknowledge the suffering of the Palestinian people, not only since October 7th, but since 1948- is just as appalling and inhumane as refusing to acknowledge the abominable sufferings of the 30s and 40s.

If security needs to be as tight as suggested along the Gaza/Israeli border, then it really does suggest that there is a problem in Gaza.
Which of course there is, it’s called Hamas.

maddyone

If security needs to be as tight as suggested along the Gaza/Israeli border, then it really does suggest that there is a problem in Gaza.
Which of course there is, it’s called Hamas.

Of course there is - the Israelis know that.

If you were to live in an enclosure surrounded by tigers, you'd want to make sure you had a strong border fence. If you noticed a weakness in the fence, you'd hope that something would be done to reinforce it, not ignored.

Blaming Netanyahu is not blaming the victims, at all.

Israelis are not living in an enclosure ,

Then, when fear and destruction have been spread liberally across those lands, Trump will try to play the hearts & minds game -- because, of course, nobody could fail to love America once they realise what they have to gain by kissing its rear end.

Anniebach

You are not reading all posts

Oh! I think I am.

Anniebach

Israelis are not living in an enclosure ,

But Palestinians are. If the tigers lived in a cage, you'd want to make sure it was secure.

Again, Israel at fault