Breaking news: Congratulations to Andrew Gwynne who wins the ministerial sack race of 2025

eazybee

^Almost any business or group does it to varying extremes I should think.^

Really?? And that enables you to condone it?

Where do I say I condone it?
It enables me to realise that it goes on, no more no less.To err is human and to forgive divine sort of thing.
The world isn’t perfect, politics and local governance is far from perfect, same with business.
If it’s leaked they pay the price. You have to think that we’re all different on here, different ages and different opinions, and I’m not as horrified and shocked as some are as I never expect MPs
Ministers or Councillors to never put a foot wrong.They’re human and it happens.

Looking into it (googling) I see that the group was mainly operable 2019 to 2022. Gwynne was clearly the instigator and leader.

The Labour Party was quite right to immediately suspend him and is now investigating all those who participated in terms of what was said. I believe it will be thorough, I dont think they will be "duplicitous" as alleged above.

I think there is a difference between where disparaging comments on the public are made and where its internal party political points scoring.

I greatly despise both as it happens but have no doubt that the latter happens in both political and non political groups and always has.

I think the press are going to stretch it out as long as they can with so called "fresh revelations" which aren't fresh at all, since the original material is out there.

I'm not sure about Ryan (the second MP named, who was a councillor at the time the group existed, now an MP.).

People are saying he should be suspended but I think it depends on what he said.

Almost any business or group does it to varying extremes I should think.

Really?? And that enables you to condone it?

Oreo

Lathyrus3

Ok. That’s one little phrase.

How about commenting on a group of people with power over the lives of other who set up a group where they can express their contempt for the people over whom they have power.

And their right to keep that private so that nobody will know the beliefs their actions are based on.

Any thoughts about that?

Almost any business or group does it to varying extremes I should think.

But that does not mean that it is therefore acceptable, nor that members of these groups indulge in making disparaging comments about the people they are there to serve.

Lathyrus3

Ok. That’s one little phrase.

How about commenting on a group of people with power over the lives of other who set up a group where they can express their contempt for the people over whom they have power.

And their right to keep that private so that nobody will know the beliefs their actions are based on.

Any thoughts about that?

Almost any business or group does it to varying extremes I should think.

Oreo

Casdon

People don’t seem to learn from past experiences do they? I would have thought that the bloody aftermath of the government Covid WhatsApp group exposure would have put off any politicians from using WhatsApp for personal remarks, but no. In their shoes I don’t think I’d want to be part of a group on WhatsApp at all as a politician in fact, for fear of others using it unprofessionally, surely all professional discussions should be conducted via email.

I agree but emails can be shared/ leaked as well.In our increasingly Orwellian society there’s hardly any such thing as privacy.
DP was chatting to a friend yesterday who came round to talk about cars ( boring!) this friend wanted an inside camera installed that recorded not only the road and other cars and whatnot but also filmed inside the car and recorded conversations.😲

I know emails can be shared, but they are the way of communicating in a business like environment, a more formal method of communicating. Politicians shouldn’t be writing inappropriate messages on any form of social media in my opinion.

Ok. That’s one little phrase.

How about commenting on a group of people with power over the lives of other who set up a group where they can express their contempt for the people over whom they have power.

And their right to keep that private so that nobody will know the beliefs their actions are based on.

Any thoughts about that?

Lathyrus3

I totally agree that people have a right to a private life.

This wasn’t a private life though was it! It was a work group comprised of people who had power over others in policy, practice and law-making, encouraging and spurring each other on in their contempt for - well basically anyone who wasn’t one of them.

Do I think they had a right to do that secretly without exposure by someone who, thankfully, was totally appalled by what they had discovered? Nope. I think the right to know who is controlling our lives is not something that should be concealed.

I don’t think the Councillor who leaked the messages was ‘totally appalled’ at all by the messages, it sounds more like a classic stab in the back for reasons other than that.

They may well have agreed with his views, but the aim of the game was to oust him from his job and thereby they hoped, stop the council pension scheme that Reeves was proposing and Gwynne was backing.It was to invest in British firms and not American ones which they favoured as better returns by all accounts.

So a way of' letting off steam' is to circulate unpleasant texts about constituents and other MPs?
A thread elsewhere concerns the distress caused to someone discovering unpleasant personal comments by accident;
imagine how the subjects of these comments must feel knowing they have to work with the perpetrators, members of their own party.

A plot to oust a minister they didn’t agree with.

Jolly good thing they don’t agree with his views, don’t you think?

I totally agree that people have a right to a private life.

This wasn’t a private life though was it! It was a work group comprised of people who had power over others in policy, practice and law-making, encouraging and spurring each other on in their contempt for - well basically anyone who wasn’t one of them.

Do I think they had a right to do that secretly without exposure by someone who, thankfully, was totally appalled by what they had discovered? Nope. I think the right to know who is controlling our lives is not something that should be concealed.

Casdon

People don’t seem to learn from past experiences do they? I would have thought that the bloody aftermath of the government Covid WhatsApp group exposure would have put off any politicians from using WhatsApp for personal remarks, but no. In their shoes I don’t think I’d want to be part of a group on WhatsApp at all as a politician in fact, for fear of others using it unprofessionally, surely all professional discussions should be conducted via email.

I agree but emails can be shared/ leaked as well.In our increasingly Orwellian society there’s hardly any such thing as privacy.
DP was chatting to a friend yesterday who came round to talk about cars ( boring!) this friend wanted an inside camera installed that recorded not only the road and other cars and whatnot but also filmed inside the car and recorded conversations.😲

I see the WhatsApp group as they prob all do, a way of keeping in touch with work colleagues which invariably will include letting off steam. What they seem slow in realising is that it only takes one person to leak messages and it’s all over bar the shouting.In this case it appears to be one councillor according to eazybee which I haven’t verified, leaking messages from personal reasons as Gwynne was in a row with some members of Tameside Council.Looking for ways to bring him down they found it, all very Julius Caesar and the Senate🗡️🔪
This councillor who leaked it wasn’t being ‘brave’ or noble at all it was a sordid plot to oust a Minister they didn’t agree with.

Lathyrus3

I’m really having trouble with the posts that are more concerned with privacy and his being found out than with being horrified at the views he expressed and the kind of man they revealed him to be.🤔

Fair enough. I have trouble with the idea that people have no right to a private life.

As I keep saying though, I am not ‘more concerned’ about that than about the content- I do wish people would read what is actually posted. Of course I am horrified by the posts, and (as I have also said, twice if memory serves) I agree absolutely that it was right that he’s been sacked. I just recognise that this is not a simple matter, as seems to be becoming apparent if there has been animosity within the group. That does not mean that I condone anything that was said, which is why I have said that more than once.

hoomee29

We have reservations about people across the pond but ours are just as bad. More adept at putting on the veneer of decency. Hypocrites all.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

We have reservations about people across the pond but ours are just as bad. More adept at putting on the veneer of decency. Hypocrites all.

People don’t seem to learn from past experiences do they? I would have thought that the bloody aftermath of the government Covid WhatsApp group exposure would have put off any politicians from using WhatsApp for personal remarks, but no. In their shoes I don’t think I’d want to be part of a group on WhatsApp at all as a politician in fact, for fear of others using it unprofessionally, surely all professional discussions should be conducted via email.

Thanks for the interesting background eazybee. I’d wondered what conflict lay behind the leaking of the whatsap group. We all need privacy and security to relax with trusted family or friends. If a trusted member of our trusted group sold info to the press, we’d be righteously angry.
Joining into an informal work whatsap group should mean having the sense to realise it could be ‘outed’ any minute. So if you hold bigoted, offensive belief systems don’t post them on whatsap. If you don’t share the disgusting belief systems, ‘jokes’ then leave the group because by staying you’re encouraging a sub culture you must know your employer would sack you for.

These comments were not made in private, they were to a group of at least 12 people connected by work.
They were not discovered by trawling through dustbins or hacking, they were reported by a councillor, Kaleel Khan, to the Greater Manchester Police.
Apparently the messages were leaked as Andrew Gwynne is in a bitter row with some members of Tameside Council, GM. Gwynne has supported Reeves' plan to merge the UK's 86 council pension schemes into mega funds and invest in British companies. Opponents wish to continue investing in American companies because the returns are higher. There are repots of friction between Gwynne and left -wing elements of the council.
So a squalid squabble over pensions with a crude, contemptuous MP, with another one exposed yesterday. Oliver Ryan.
Both should resign their seats, but in the current moral climate of the Labour party and its duplicitous leader, unlikely.

Shinamae

I’m pretty sure more will be outed from this WhatsApp group…
Just a matter of time…😬

Sooner than I thought…..

I’m really having trouble with the posts that are more concerned with privacy and his being found out than with being horrified at the views he expressed and the kind of man they revealed him to be.🤔

Lathyrus3

Somewhere to be himself?

Well yes. That’s the whole point really. This is himself. This is the man. This is what he thinks of other people. His texts covered a wide range of all those he holds in contempt.

It’s a good thing that his true self has been exposed isn’t it? Along with all the other members of the group

Which is what I said after acknowledging Oreo’s point that it was said in private.

There is a part of me that feels uneasy about private conversations being made public. I remember hearing an interview with Bob Dylan in which he said that his breakdown was caused by press intrusion into his private life. They went through his bins to look for anything that might make a story. It stuck in my mind, as I was young and had very little privacy myself. Even now, the thought of being scrutinised all the time makes me shudder.

But the fact that this was a work group makes it different. If colleagues had sent me texts like that I would have been upset by it, and whoever reported him did the right thing. I hope they aren’t sanctioned for doing so - it was brave as they will have known it would bring the party into disrepute.

I’m pretty sure more will be outed from this WhatsApp group…
Just a matter of time…😬

Somewhere to be himself?

Well yes. That’s the whole point really. This is himself. This is the man. This is what he thinks of other people. His texts covered a wide range of all those he holds in contempt.

It’s a good thing that his true self has been exposed isn’t it? Along with all the other members of the group