Next step in overriding female rights!

And?

Galaxy

It is Male entitlement.

I’d like the Judge to demand this doctor removes his skirt and under garments in court then I think we’d see more than his male entitlement.
A doctor who believes a man can be a women merely by wishing it should be removed from the register.

And ...?

PoliticsNerd

And ...?

And . . . ?

Sadly, there are still both male and evidently female supporters for male entitlement even when it includes lying about biological facts, ignoring the rights of the very people TIM fantasise about being.

And. . . as I’ve mentioned before, contributing to the public perception that all TIM are like that.

Could you explain to me what " lying about biological facts" means to you please Mollygo.

Claiming to be a woman when he isn’t. Despite all the fluffing around with gender claims, women are adult human females. Men and trans women are not.
Lying by word or action is a lie. Claiming that sex is nebulous is also a lie.

Spot on, Mollygo. To claim that biological sex is merely a 'nebulous concept' is a lie - and that's just one example.

Every time Upton filled in a form for laboratory tests on a patient sample he would have indicated whether the person was male or female sex. You have to wonder how on earth he managed that given that he says biological sex is a nebulous, undefined thing. Did he ask each and every patient what their sex was, and how would he deal with an unconscious patient?

Mollygo

Claiming to be a woman when he isn’t. Despite all the fluffing around with gender claims, women are adult human females. Men and trans women are not.
Lying by word or action is a lie. Claiming that sex is nebulous is also a lie.

Upton is not so much lying about the immutability of biological sex - she is denying it as a scientific fact (according to most scientific understanding).

We know there's 'wiggle room' and it's not completely without exception due to a very small % not fitting the sex binary.

I know the dictionary definition of "nebulous" but not what Upton means by it in this instance... expanding that small percentage to throw biological sex out of the window? Who knows.

Anyway, I don't believe the case should rest on the 'gender /sex argument' because sex is a protected characteristic, but so is gender...

Did Peggie discriminate against Upton because she waited outside the changing room for the doctor to leave before entering? Or when she called Upton a man whom she felt intimidated by - being in the same changing room?

Also, the allegation (by Upton) that Peggie removed herself from the resus room - presumably when a patient was being treated. Does the doctor now want that investigated - two months or so after the event?

This is surely what's important - do Upton's views on 'nebulous' biological sex count in this? I don't think they should. But, if they do in this instance - where does that leave women?

Galaxy

I actually think left and right are becoming meaningless, the progressives ( the woke for want of a better word) hold none of the values that I recognise as 'left'. They either ignore class totally or often favour the middle class over the working class.

I agree. The LP has more graduates and professionals as members than any other party, which is fine (I have no issues with so-called 'champagne socialism') but the membership includes those who have no experience of or empathy with the working class who founded the party (or for whom it was founded, depending on your perspective). They mock Brexiteers, and call those who might lose their job to a cheaper immigrant racist from the safety of a secure career, and bang on about how too many people go to university when they and their children have done well out of doing just that, and/or they have contacts who can help and the advantage of knowing how to 'fit in' as a result of their education that many haven't learnt. It's ok for other people's children to take their chances, though. It's not really a concern for fairness (which IMO is the basis of socialism) but self-interest.

I think it's that sort of thing that pushes people towards Right Wing parties like Reform, coupled with the sheer unfairness of life just now. Someone working long hours on insecure contracts and on one hand having to then give most of it away to a landlord who bought a council house and now rents it out, and on the other seeing a neighbour who doesn't work so gets his rent paid has a right to feel aggrieved. So does someone who has saved into a pension only to find they only get marginally more than the SP, but their friend who didn't save gets PC and everything that goes with it. Same with people who have to sell their home to get social care and find the money is used to subsidise the person in the room next door. At the same time, services are being cut, people can't get medical appointments and everything costs a fortune.

Being resentful of all that doesn't make someone Right Wing - it just makes them resentful, and therefore vulnerable to simplistic appeals from the Right.

I wish we had an edit button. There are numerous typos and mistakes in my post, but I hope it makes sense.

I think it makes perfect sense, Doodledog. The Labour Party needs to wake up to the problems you list and do something to help people who are suffering from this kind of unfairness to feel listened to. And then do something to make things a bit less unfair. Otherwise, as you say, the likes of Reform will seem much more appealing.

Doodledog

I wish we had an edit button. There are numerous typos and mistakes in my post, but I hope it makes sense.

... it makes perfect sense.

And I didn't notice any typos - that's because the brain is logical, it knows how a sentence is constructed and sees the sense before the mind notices the typos!

Interesting. Why do you think "he isn't"? What is it that stops this person being what they say they are?

PoliticsNerd

Interesting. Why do you think "he isn't"? What is it that stops this person being what they say they are?

Biology!

Sorry! That was to Mollygo. I just came back in and the tablet was open where I left it so I didn't see the new posts.

8 billion people currently on this earth and every last one of them gestated in the body of a woman in her uterus. Not one gestated in the body of a person with a penis and testes. Does that indicate a pattern? Maybe defines two types of people? We could call them sexes. Coincidentally, or maybe not, the same system works for every other mammal. For the avoidance of doubt, clownfish which can change their sex are fish not mammals.

A very tiny percentage of people are born with a DSD (difference of sexual development) but even these are sex specific and do not in any way invalidate that there are two and only two sexes which are immutable.

Professor Robert Winston has even declared the reality of two immutable sexes on TV several times. He is regarded as a world expert, and yet PoliticsNerd you seem to prefer the reasoning of Upton?

Doodledog your post was perfectly clear and I too didn't notice a single typo Everything you mention is a source of resentment for those affected and is a perfectly natural human reaction. It really does need addressing.

GrannyGravy13

PoliticsNerd

Interesting. Why do you think "he isn't"? What is it that stops this person being what they say they are?

Biology!

👏👏👏

Doodledog your post makes perfect sense and isvery true. .

I have no issues with men who want to live as women and dress as women but it doesn't make them women. This fetish these types have where women have to join in by watching them undress or allowing them to watch us undress is quite perverted.

Another post in support of Doodledog’s

Wheniwasyourage

I think it makes perfect sense, Doodledog. The Labour Party needs to wake up to the problems you list and do something to help people who are suffering from this kind of unfairness to feel listened to. And then do something to make things a bit less unfair. Otherwise, as you say, the likes of Reform will seem much more appealing.

Thanks for the kind comments.

I agree that the problems need to be addressed, and I hope they will be, but there is a lot of mismanagement to undo before that can happen, and the government is up against hostile media, a febrile global situation and a lack of money.

It worries me that people are moving towards parties like Reform, but doesn't really surprise me. We have another 4 years for Labour to turn things round - it's a huge task given the circumstances mentioned above - but I really hope they make it.

Upton is a male, biologically and in law.

What he is not is a gentleman, one who never knowingly causes offence to others..

GrannyGravy13

PoliticsNerd

Interesting. Why do you think "he isn't"? What is it that stops this person being what they say they are?

Biology!

Perfectly and succinctly put .

PN, what is it about him that makes you think he can fly in the face of biology and all that that entails? And what do you think gives him the right to insist that women play along with this charade on pain of prosecution?