Next step in overriding female rights!

how much longer are we going to continue with this charade?

The harder they push the boundaries, the harder we must push back and stand up for the rights of females.

Referring to your post about Leah Thomas, Terribull, much as I dislike Trump, he has made a start by banning transgender women from female sports.

This issue as well as being a mens rights movement, is also frequently about class. People with money and power targeting the workers who fail to meet their demands.

I agree Allira it’s the only thing I have agreed with that DT has done.

Oddly enough I met my friend today whose son is now her daughter. She told me that her daughter said how nervous she was about being attacked in the street.

Nan Kate, he must now understand the harm that males have done to female security. At least he has the option of reverting to the truth.
Incidentally, Lia(r) Thomas (what an accurate name for him) is still whinging that no one, male or female wants him in their team.

NanKate

I agree Allira it’s the only thing I have agreed with that DT has done.

Oddly enough I met my friend today whose son is now her daughter. She told me that her daughter said how nervous she was about being attacked in the street.

I wonder if this is something that ever crossed her mind when she was a he ie just how vulnerable women can feel and how intimidating some men can seem?

Tomorrow is the last day in the tribunal until July. It's a shame that there's such a delay, however Fife NHS withheld information and the doctors lawyer kept interrupting NC with irrelevant points (deemed as such by the judge) hence the delay. I felt a bit sorry for the nurse today. She was newly promoted when all this kicked off and has been hung out to dry by Nhs. However she made cringe worthy blunders regarding the biological difference between men and women.

If NHS Fife had provided a changing room for women that excluded men (and that includes trans identified men like Dr Upton) there would have been no need for this case. Hospitals are big places, I'm sure NHS Fife could have provided a separate changing room for trans identified men, then there would have been no problem. But, no. NHS Fife had to back those who say men can be women - I find that terrifying in a medical establishment. Even worse, they bullied a nurse who only wanted to get changed in a space free of men. And this is all at our expense, our taxes fund the NHS. Who among us wants to be treated by medical staff who can't define a man or a woman?

A private changing space was suggested but Upton's response was:
'This would have been 'othering' for a trans woman and would have required discussion. It's not a decision I get to make.'
[othering: a social process that involves negating another person's individual humanity, leading to their marginalization and the formation of prejudices against them. It often manifests as treating individuals as outsiders or different from a perceived normative group, which can contribute to societal issues such as racism, sexism, and homophobia. ]

ViceVersa

I urge everyone to read as much as they can about this case, as it has quite far-reaching consequences for all women and girls. This doctor has stated in the tribunal that he is a 'biological woman' and that biological sex is merely a 'nebulous concept'. The whole case came about after a very experienced nurse said she felt uncomfortable about having to change in the same changing room as Dr Upton. I've been following the tribunal on a daily basis and this doctor's evidence has been quite horrifying.

This doctor has stated in the tribunal that he is a 'biological woman' and that biological sex is merely a 'nebulous concept'

If biological sex is merely a nebulous concept - then how can this doctor claim to be a biological woman?

The lines would be so blurred that no-one could state with any certainty that they were one or the other.

You really couldn’t make it up

Excellent posts on this thread, and I am so glad to see and read them. It is heartening that women are at long last taking this invasion, and take over of our rights, privacy, sports, and our spaces seriously.

Before I retired, (6 yrs) the female changing room was for female nurses; female physio, OT, and other female members of staff had their own spaces - more than likely in their own depts.

Doctors in the ED, or ITU, or other high care areas had their own changing areas, and wore scrubs because of the area of their work. Ward doctors wore their own clothes, and 'bare to the elbow', some of the consultants continued to wear white coats, but most no longer do.

I think that the 'Clinical Nurse manager' giving evidence today was an utter train crash during cross examination.

GrannyGravy13

I find his statement worrying, especially from a doctor…

Surely no one has the right to get changed in front of any of their colleagues

Female - easily googled if they are in doubt:

Female: of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) that can be fertilized by male gametes.

Female: young woman, girl
The word comes from the Latin femella, meaning “young woman, girl,” which in turn is based on femina, meaning “woman.” Woman

What part of female do they not understand?

What part of female do they not understand? the part that excludes men!

Rosie51

^What part of female do they not understand?^ the part that excludes men!

Well, a female gave birth to them at some point too!

It is the word no that they struggle the most with.

Female is the thing they just 'know' they are in their feelings, even though they can't define it and can't know it's something they should be as they don't know what it means.

Galaxy

It is the word no that they struggle the most with.

Absolutely. It is that sense of entitlement which overrides everything.

charley68 It’s not a case of “at long last…” - women and a few men have been fighting this battle for many years, many to their detriment.
Here on Gransnet, Doodledog, Mollygo, Rosie51 and others have been particularly strong voices arguing against the madness of gender ideology/queer theory that has become seemingly imbedded into many of our institutions and workplaces.
MSM has a lot to answer for, with alleged rapists and sex offenders being called women/she because they have declared themselves to be trans.
The BBC also has become almost obsessed with shoe-horning TIMs into programmes, and there has been countless articles about drag queens on the news website.
I agree however that it is relatively recently that the “general public” have become aware of these issues. And yet, even over the last two days, on X we have a supposedly well educated man posting a thread saying “there is no need to be hostile or impolite to people who identify as a different gender. All that’s needed is to politely but firmly say “no, we can’t allow you to do that because we have a duty of respect to others”.
JKRowling and others have politely (in most cases) tried explaining to him why this hasn’t and doesn’t work (the Sandie Peggie Tribunal being a prime example).

I find it sad and alarming that I am seen by some at my WI as spreading alarm and dislike of transwomen when I voice my genuine concerns. Those who agree with me are too frightened to support me verbally.

My late second cousin was trans I had a perfectly reasonable relationship with her.

I worry that lesbians who do not want transwomen as partners, are told they are transphobic.

Can you explain MSM and TIMS, don’t know what they mean. Thanks.

MSM is mainstream media and TIM, is trans identified males.

grannydarkhair I do know this. I have been following every employment tribunal, the cancellation of people, and the ruining of careers and lives, and the fear that women suffer when they speak of their lived experiences for years. But, many more women are speaking out now and that is so wonderful to see.

I totally agree that the BBC, and newsprint media are totally guilty in continuing to spread false information and confusion in their reporting. Some newsprint media are worse than others, and in my mind the Guardian is dreadful.
The BBC also seem determined to promote drag queens at every turn, it is a total mockery and cruel caricature of women.

I have been following the conversation from that X poster over the last day or so, another ridiculous person stating that we can tell someone 'to leave a changing room, but we must be polite with their pronouns'.

Women will have no rights, when men who claim they are women claim them from us, and report us to the police for 'hate crimes' when we disagree and refuse validate them.

The WI is no longer a women's organisation NanKate because there are men identifying as women in it, and one or two at a high level in the organisation, I think? I am so sorry about this for you, but maybe you all could band together and join up with others who do not agree with the direction the WI. is heading.

What I don't understand is why only the nurse was suspended from her work, to my mind they both should have been suspended. The other solution may be separate toilets/ changing for trans people. If they have a problem with that, then I'm not sure what the solution will be. If the doctor has not had full surgery, then they are male. It must be interesting conversations on maternity wards. I have no problem with trans people, but I do have a problem with safe spaces for women and girls being eroded. I also have to be very careful what I say in my own country and online, as it can probably be classed as a hate crime. You are frightened to open your mouth to say anything nowadays. Mind you, even more confusing is a couple of months back reading about apparently someone who is tri- gender! I honestly cannot keep up with or understand it all. I mean no offence to anyone.

The doctor was offered separate accommodation and refused it because it would have meant othering:
othering: a social process that involves negating another person's individual humanity, leading to their marginalization and the formation of prejudices against them. It often manifests as treating individuals as outsiders or different from a perceived normative group, which can contribute to societal issues such as racism, sexism, and homophobia
Difficult to fight when you have a local MP who supports this.