Next step in overriding female rights!

My apologies if this has already been quoted but detail often tell a more nuanced story than headlines.

^Also

Ms Cunningham told the tribunal: ‘It’s right, isn’t it, you feel no obligation to disclose your true sex, or if you prefer to put it that way your trans history, to a woman who has asked to see a female doctor?’

Dr Upton, who started working for NHS Fife in August 2023, told her: ‘I don’t think it’s appropriate for me to disclose private matters of my personal life to any of my patient be that my trans history, my medical history, my sexual orientation, my place of residence, my age, these are not things that I am obligated to share with the patient because they have no bearing on my ability to care for that patient.

‘If the patient, for any reason, doesn’t wish to be seen by me and they communicate that to me, I don’t see them.’

The tribunal, before employment judge Sandy Kemp, continues.

There are more nuanced details than Dr Upton's grandiose verbosity.

If the doctor has not had full surgery, then they are male.

Even if they have 'full surgery' they remain male. A man who suffers an accident that causes him to lose his penis doesn't become female, a castrated bull doesn't become a cow, nor a castrated stallion a mare.
Their hearts and lungs remain larger, their bones don't shorten. Even after years of cross sex hormones their muscle mass remains greater than women's. As Professor Robert Winston famously said on 'Question Time' "you cannot change your sex".

As for Dr Upton, I don't believe any patient who has requested a female doctor is the least bit interested in his my medical history, my sexual orientation, my place of residence, my age,, it's his biological sex they're interested in.

Politics Nerd, if I was unconscious, bleeding heavily or in excruciating pain, I doubt if I would be able to be aware of the gender of the doctor. Therefore women can't necessarily refuse him as a doctor. Aveline I completely agree with you

Those are lots of words to explain assault.
I cant speak for others but I know this case very well.

Grandmabatty

Politics Nerd, if I was unconscious, bleeding heavily or in excruciating pain, I doubt if I would be able to be aware of the gender of the doctor. Therefore women can't necessarily refuse him as a doctor. Aveline I completely agree with you

Obviously in a medical emergency, you're hardly likely to be in a fit state to question the sex of your doctor, but let's say you had been the victim of a sexual assault and requested a female doctor. Would you then be happy to be treated by a trans doctor? Maybe you would - many other women would not. But this case is about far more than Dr Upton's 'gender status'. His refusal to accept that there is such a thing as biological sex calls into question his very ability to practise. Differences in biological sex DO matter when it comes to medical issues - heart attack symptoms are just one such example, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

My issue with this man, is that he is expecting us all to go along with his lie he is a man, always will be however he presents to the outside world.

I was treated by a wonderful kind and gentle male doctor last week, he had to fit a leg brace (crotch to ankle). I didn’t have a problem with the intimacy he wasn’t pretending to be something he wasn’t (or could never be)

Yes ViceVersa

All the if . . . would it matter situations conjured up to get round this, don't alter the fact that Upton is happy to lie by word about his sex or by deed by his decision to appear when a female doctor has been requested.

Yes, exactly, Mollygo. His sense of entitlement has been at the very crux of this from the beginning. He believes his feelings should override anyone else's feelings - or their rights.

Mollygo and ViceVersa I agree

I also agree.

It's as well to remember this is the man capable of insisting he is now a 'biological female', happy to intimidate actual females in changing rooms, when challenged by Sandie Peggie he fled in tears, shaking, fearful for his 'safety'. Had to race round the unit to find the on duty consultant to demonstrate his upset and be escorted to his car. Yet he stood up to being questioned, 'misgendered', challenged as a liar by a KC, and remained confident, nay smug even.

ViceVersa

I urge everyone to read as much as they can about this case, as it has quite far-reaching consequences for all women and girls. This doctor has stated in the tribunal that he is a 'biological woman' and that biological sex is merely a 'nebulous concept'. The whole case came about after a very experienced nurse said she felt uncomfortable about having to change in the same changing room as Dr Upton. I've been following the tribunal on a daily basis and this doctor's evidence has been quite horrifying.

It's amazing that a medically trained professional person can say they are 'biologically' a woman - how has this person changed their chromosomes? They are the warp and weft, the very fabric of our being, and as far as my medical knowledge goes, cannot be altered by surgery or chemical therapy. As you say, quite horrifying.

Arrogant is the description I would use.

I have posted before that I had a (wonderful) transgender GP for many years.
She led a very low profile life, and the group practice in which she worked were completely ok if patients said that they would prefer nor to be treated by Dr X.
Transgender acceptance is not best served by entitled, demanding people like Dr Upton.

Aveline

There are more nuanced details than Dr Upton's grandiose verbosity.

What was "verbose" or "grandiose" in the quote I reported? They simply explain what is true - or is that your problem? Strange use of those words. In the end it is for the court to decide, not us.

PoliticsNerd is there any evidence any patient has ever asked for Upton's details regarding his medical history, place of residence, sexual orientation or age? I'd call that being verbose when all he needed to say was he thinks his lying about his sex is none of their business. And he is lying, no mammal let alone human has ever changed their DNA from male to female. Sex is determined by DNA not feelings.

I am not convinced how this one will go but the record of gender critical wins via the legal system is pretty good. And the publicity which has highlighted the Male entitlement of this movement has been invaluable.

Chocolatelovinggran

I have posted before that I had a (wonderful) transgender GP for many years.
She led a very low profile life, and the group practice in which she worked were completely ok if patients said that they would prefer nor to be treated by Dr X.
Transgender acceptance is not best served by entitled, demanding people like Dr Upton.

I agree.

My heart sinks when the Dr Uptons of this world create problems needlessly by not respecting others and making demands - and statements - that can only inflame as well as being inaccurate (demanding its "biological")

Because it creates an intolerance for people like Chocolatelovinggrans doctor and others who respect boundaries and live peacefully amongst us.

I had the experience 15 years ago of being groped by a male A and E doctor (no, I did dare speak up) but dont assume "they're all like that".

Sorry, didnt dare speak up not did.

I’m usually of the opinion that live and let live, had I been in this nurses position I would have done and felt the same, female spaces are for females and we should not give in to delusional males.

Wyllow 3 💖

It is not possible to live and let live if men use female spaces, the whole be kind thing is why we are where we are. The answer is no. Whatever these men feel, whatever they have done to their bodies, however quietly they are living their lives, the answer remains no.

Someone in government needs to get brave and say what Galaxy did
I recall previous threads on this where gender critical feminists were told that in the 1960’s we’d have been anti gay men. Nonsense of course but reflecting the distorted thinking around this.
Another ‘transwoman’ has been charged with sexual offences against a boy child and adult women. The alleged crimes recorded as being committed by a woman because that’s how this (alleged) predator describes itself.
It’s going to distort statistics and make it appear women are becoming more dangerous
Is it too much to ask for a trans man/woman category> or record XX is male and identifies as female. Yes, it clearly is

apparently someone who is tri- gender

Do you mean the wonderful Samantha Kane, self titled Lady Carbisdale