Ukraine- the situation is VERY serious

Whitewavemark2 the main obstacle as I see it is who (what country) would be in charge.

What language would be used in battle? On exercises it is different, interpreters can be used along with AI. Can you imagine having armed personnel side by side not being able to understand each other.

It would have to be each country, keeping its personnel together, not 100% integration. In which case it’s best to leave things as they are, separate forces who can come together as and when.

I quite see that there will be difficulties to overcome.

But for me the only thing authoritarian leaders like Putin and Trump understand is strength.

Europe must show a United and strong front.

I concede it will be massively difficult but what choice does Europe have?

Language? English that is used in Brussels.

Whitewavemark2 I agree that all Europe needs to stand together over Ukraine, which they have since day one apart from Belarus

I just cannot agree on the need for a European army.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 I agree that all Europe needs to stand together over Ukraine, which they have since day one apart from Belarus

I just cannot agree on the need for a European army.

Thus your vote for Brexit?

ronib

Can’t Zelensky and Europe/Uk tell Trump to simply go away? If you won’t remain financially invested why are you stirring the pot? Trump doesn’t want to be involved so he should walk away? Permanently…. Unless he wants a refund?

There is the small matter that a great many of the armaments Ukraine is using up come from the US, Europe simply does not have the stockpiles to sustain the existing war let alone a escalation, nor do we have the ordanance industry to gear it up.

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 I agree that all Europe needs to stand together over Ukraine, which they have since day one apart from Belarus

I just cannot agree on the need for a European army.

Thus your vote for Brexit?

It was one of the factors, AS and his contemporaries in the forces are definitely against a European army and the nightmares of the logistics.

Over the last 30+ years we have met multiple head honchos in the armed forces from UK and Europe, none of which have been in favour of a European army.

(I have said many times on GN I was unsure of where to put my X until I entered the polling booth, in the end I voted the same way as our children as it was their future)

There is a European summit tomorrow on Ukraine. Have to see what comes out of it. At the same time (BBC feed) I saw of the huge number of landmines across Ukraines very fertile fields (which also affect precious metal mining). Its a long painful "Wait and see" when Trump is actually showing no rush to get plans on the table.

John Major on the BBC news at lunchtime today saying what most MP's must be thinking and unable to say publically..

He thinks this is a serious situation...

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 the main obstacle as I see it is who (what country) would be in charge.

What language would be used in battle? On exercises it is different, interpreters can be used along with AI. Can you imagine having armed personnel side by side not being able to understand each other.

It would have to be each country, keeping its personnel together, not 100% integration. In which case it’s best to leave things as they are, separate forces who can come together as and when.

I completely agree.
Each country in Europe with its own armed forces and working in unison when absolutely needed.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 I agree that all Europe needs to stand together over Ukraine, which they have since day one apart from Belarus

I just cannot agree on the need for a European army.

Thus your vote for Brexit?

It was one of the factors, AS and his contemporaries in the forces are definitely against a European army and the nightmares of the logistics.

Over the last 30+ years we have met multiple head honchos in the armed forces from UK and Europe, none of which have been in favour of a European army.

(I have said many times on GN I was unsure of where to put my X until I entered the polling booth, in the end I voted the same way as our children as it was their future)

No one is suggesting a fully integrated army.

But versions of UN force seems the most likely outcome.

However, I am sure if war happened, with Putin - and I’m not convinced it will (🤞) then an integrated European force makes
Sense, if only because each country on its own is not strong enough.

Is the confusion around what Trump intends deliberate or simply inept and indecisive?

"Then there is the question of the way US foreign policy under Trump was being communicated.

What happened in Munich seemed to be partly an attempt by his senior officials to interpret and relay Trump's positions, but that effort resulted in sometimes explosive and often contradictory statements - some of which were then partly diluted or reversed."

"The challenge for those affected is that the precise position of US foreign policy is having to be divined.

One of its features is uncertainty.

This may well be deliberate - Donald Trump using the "madman" theory of foreign relations - often attributed to former Republican President Richard Nixon.

This suggests that being powerful but unpredictable is a way to make allies stay close while coercing adversaries. It would also explain a sense of his own officials going rogue but within the parameters of Trump's broadly known positions.

But as this theory's name suggests, it also carries considerable risks of mistakes or miscalculation in an already violent and uncertain world."

(BBC article)

Honestly I don’t think the right hand knows what the left is doing at the moment. An example is that the nuclear safety people they fired as part of the sweeping reduction in state employees had had their records wiped. When they realised they needed them, they had to put out an appeal for anybody who knew them to tell them to contact the government as they had no means of knowing who they were. It’s unbelievable.

Well his "solutions" for Gaza went well, didnt they?

Comment this morning is around the UK providing “boots on the ground” for an Ukraine peace deal from Starmer, no comment at all about regaining lost land. Putin isnt going to accept a troops from a NATO country policing any ceasefire zone, that’s totally unrealistic.

Also the prospect of renewing Gas supply from Russia to Western Europe, it’s all a long way from escalating the war.

I think Europe is working very hard to make sure that it does not need to buy gas from Russia anytime in the future.

'Drill,baby, drill' may be our best way out of Russian dependence. As would be developing our own gas resources in the North Sea. Europe buying gas from us and Norway and not buying it from Russia, will not increase our diminishing emissions because what we take out of the ground will be balanced with what Putin has to leave in the ground because it has no market.

M0nica

I think Europe is working very hard to make sure that it does not need to buy gas from Russia anytime in the future.

'Drill,baby, drill' may be our best way out of Russian dependence. As would be developing our own gas resources in the North Sea. Europe buying gas from us and Norway and not buying it from Russia, will not increase our diminishing emissions because what we take out of the ground will be balanced with what Putin has to leave in the ground because it has no market.

Agree entirely (for a change), that doesn’t stop the environmental nutters, trying to stop gas drilling, we should aim to be energy independant as soon as possible.

I trust the opinion of Peter Ricketts (former diplomat and security adviser on this) and he says not a European Army, but Armies working together in co-operation as they already do.

David
”Putin isnt going to accept a troops from a NATO country policing any ceasefire zone, that’s totally unrealistic”

Why is this unrealistic?

Surely any peace keeping troops would be on Ukrainian soil - not Russian? It really isn’t anything to do with Putin who sets foot on sovereign Ukrainian land.

It looks like Trump’s going to ‘negotiate’ away part of Ukraine to Putin anyway, but the rest of Ukraine will be Ukrainian - so none of Putin’s business.

It seems to me we’re too ready to say “Putin won’t accept this or that”. That’s how and why bullies win!

David49

M0nica

I think Europe is working very hard to make sure that it does not need to buy gas from Russia anytime in the future.

'Drill,baby, drill' may be our best way out of Russian dependence. As would be developing our own gas resources in the North Sea. Europe buying gas from us and Norway and not buying it from Russia, will not increase our diminishing emissions because what we take out of the ground will be balanced with what Putin has to leave in the ground because it has no market.

Agree entirely (for a change), that doesn’t stop the environmental nutters, trying to stop gas drilling, we should aim to be energy independant as soon as possible.

Not a very good future for our GC's either extreme climate change events or death by war..

Mamie

I trust the opinion of Peter Ricketts (former diplomat and security adviser on this) and he says not a European Army, but Armies working together in co-operation as they already do.

Exactly, I totally agree

I do support Starmer in his statement that British troops should have a peacekeeping role in Ukraine, and I assume they will be joined by other European troops.

Photos are re-emerging of Farage with Aleksandr Yakovenko, Russian Ambassador in UK 2011-2019. Mr Yakovenko said 'we have crused the British to the grond and they will not rise for a very long time'.

Anyone who thinks that Brexit was not one of the many steps towards a very deliberate weakening of Europe, to divide and rule, must be very naive.

It is getting clearer by the day that so many events, apparently separate, of the past decade, are all linked and orchestrated to achieve the current scenario.

Claremont

Photos are re-emerging of Farage with Aleksandr Yakovenko, Russian Ambassador in UK 2011-2019. Mr Yakovenko said 'we have crused the British to the grond and they will not rise for a very long time'.

Anyone who thinks that Brexit was not one of the many steps towards a very deliberate weakening of Europe, to divide and rule, must be very naive.

It is getting clearer by the day that so many events, apparently separate, of the past decade, are all linked and orchestrated to achieve the current scenario.

But Brexit hasn’t divided Europe, the UK left a trading union.

The U.K. is not crushed.

The UK is part of Europe, our armed forces have continued to train alongside EU member countries.

Europe is as strong as it has ever been.

The strongest member left a strong economic union.

That weakened the EU.

However, I’m getting more confident that that position will soon be rectified, even if it is not a full return.